Agriculture Modules

[KiwiHawk]

Agriculture modules are still a bit strange.

Issues

• Incorrectly show in tooltips of Mining Drills and Labs
• Appears that they are being inserted when Ctrl + Clicking (doesn't actually insert, correctly)
• Can be inserted into beacons when Bob's Module's setting Transmit Productivity is enabled (BUG)
• Helpers such as Helmod and YAFC have no way of knowing that mining drills and labs shouldn't accept Agriculture modules

Suggested fixes

• Remove control stage module insertion checks
• Disallow pollution in:
  • Labs
• Disallow productivity in:
  • Mining drills
• Either disable Bob's Modules setting to allow productivity in beacons. Or if it is enabled, disallow pollution in beacons
• Remove pollution effect from productivity and god modules (Bob's modules)

Side effects

• Green, Pollution Cleaning, and Pollution Producing modules will no longer be usable in Labs
• If Bob's Module's setting Transmit Productivity is enabled, then Green, Pollution Cleaning, and Pollution Producing modules will no longer be usable in beacons

[domis86]

Side effects

Green, Pollution Cleaning, and Pollution Producing modules will no longer be usable in Labs, Mining drills, or furnaces

This is not a good change IMO. It reduces number of play options.

If Bob's Module's setting Transmit Productivity is enabled, then Green, Pollution Cleaning, and Pollution Producing modules will no longer be usable in beacons

Same with this. Additionally this seems to be introducing another inconsistency/bug - because why would those "pollution related modules" be disabled when "Transmit Productivity" option is enabled? Pollution has nothing to do with productivbity IMO.

[KiwiHawk]

I see pollution modules as very niche, almost to the point of being useless. I believe these side effects are insignificant enough that they are a worthwhile trade-offs. Pollution output can still be reduced by using Efficiency Modules.

Some entities don't require a recipe to be set: {"furnace", "beacon", "mining drill", "lab"}. The only way to prevent particular modules from being used in these entities is to ban a module effect category: {"speed", "productivity", "consumption", "pollution"}.

Normally modules with a productivity effect are banned in beacons. If they aren't, then I need to pick a different category to ban. Pollution is the best choice.

Agriculture modules have a pollution as well as a productivity effect.

Unfortunately there is no way to define a custom module category.

PR to resolve this issue: https://github.com/Arch666Angel/mods/pull/708

[LovelySanta]

Some entities don't require a recipe to be set: {"furnace", "beacon", "mining drill", "lab"}. The only way to prevent particular modules from being used in these entities is to ban a module effect category: {"speed", "productivity", "consumption", "pollution"}.

Not entirely correct, furnaces can be prod moduled, the only difference of a furnace is that the recipe changes dynamically.

Normally modules with a productivity effect are banned in beacons. If they aren't, then I need to pick a different category to ban. Pollution is the best choice.

It is also not allowed to put prod modules in beacons, so I don't think it's a bad idea to ban productivity in beacons at all.

Agriculture modules have a pollution as well as a productivity effect.

The pollution effect is also a 'bonus' as it will increase the cleaning of the air

[KiwiHawk]

It is also not allowed to put prod modules in beacons, so I don't think it's a bad idea to ban productivity in beacons at all.

Bob's Modules has a setting "Transmit Productivity". When this is enabled, prod modules can be placed in beacons. This currently includes Agriculture Modules.

Good point about the furnaces. I'll update that. I need to do some additional testing on the beacons. It might actually not be worth updating them.

[domis86]

I see pollution modules as very niche, almost to the point of being useless. I believe these side effects are insignificant enough that they are a worthwhile trade-offs. Pollution output can still be reduced by using Efficiency Modules.

It depends on settings of game. For example: if you play with biters and evolution enabled, and also expensive recipe/technology costs, then you need to be careful about pollution (to not trigger biters to attack etc) - there come the pollution related modules:

• "pollution cleaning" effect is good for reducing pollution of machines.
• "polution producing" effect is good for improving things which have negative pollution (thus increasing reduction of pollution) -like "Air filters", Arboretums, Farms, Bio-Gardens (from https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Bio_Industries ) etc

[LovelySanta]

It is also not allowed to put prod modules in beacons, so I don't think it's a bad idea to ban productivity in beacons at all.

Bob's Modules has a setting "Transmit Productivity". When this is enabled, prod modules can be placed in beacons. This currently includes Agriculture Modules.

I'm thinking about disabling that... angels has huge productivity already.. bobs beacons are OP already... even more productivity is not really required.. I am leaning towards disabling this completely tbh... (= angels disabling the setting and setting it off, done by angels bio processing)

[KiwiHawk]

I'm thinking about disabling that... angels has huge productivity already.. bobs beacons are OP already... even more productivity is not really required.. I am leaning towards disabling this completely tbh... (= angels disabling the setting and setting it off, done by angels bio processing)

I'd be okay with that. You'll probably have a couple of complaints but 🤷‍♂️ Are you also considering disabling god modules?

[LovelySanta]

Players can decide on god modules themselves...

[KiwiHawk]

Are there any changes you think need to be made to the PR? I've had another look and I believe everything is okay. Furnaces can take Productivity modules but not Agriculture Modules.

[KiwiHawk]

It depends on settings of game. For example: if you play with biters and evolution enabled, and also expensive recipe/technology costs, then you need to be careful about pollution (to not trigger biters to attack etc) - there come the pollution related modules:

• "pollution cleaning" effect is good for reducing pollution of machines.
• "polution producing" effect is good for improving things which have negative pollution (thus increasing reduction of pollution) -like "Air filters", Arboretums, Farms, Bio-Gardens (from https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Bio_Industries ) etc

Pollution cleaning modules are inferior to Efficiency modules. Efficiency module 8 gives -60% energy consumption. Pollution cleaning module 8 gives -20% pollution. From the wiki: "Final pollution value is (pollution multiplier energy usage multiplier base pollution)"

Air filters, arboretums, etc are not affected at all by this PR.

[domis86]

Pollution cleaning modules are inferior to Efficiency modules. Efficiency module 8 gives -60% energy consumption. Pollution cleaning module 8 gives -20% pollution. From the wiki: "Final pollution value is (pollution multiplier energy usage multiplier base pollution)"

Pollution cleaning module 8 gives -120% pollution, is -15% per tier. Efficiency module 8 gives -80% energy consumption, -10% per tier. Green module 8 is combination of the two above, so -80% energy and -120% pollution.

"Pollution cleaning / producing" modules are useful if player uses "non-pure" modules - for example if "Pure modules" are disabled by setting in Bobs modules. Then said modules are countering the "pollution" penalty" from Productivity and Speed modules. Keep in mind that "Efficiency modules" can reduce to only -80% max, so even if you have 2 modules with sum 2*80=160 it will be limited to -80% only. If "pollution" penalty from "Productivity modules" is high then only "Pollution modules" can reduce pollution further

There are machines, like "Electric furnace +5" (from Schall Machine Schaling mod) which have 1024 pollution/s - so for such polluters would be handy to help reduce pollution using beacons (to not waste slots in machine where "Productivity modules" are)

I think having pollution penalty in "Productivity modules" is important - otherwise "Productivity modules pollution countering" aspect of the game will be removed (Productivity modules will not give penalty, so there will be nothing to counter...).

Air filters, arboretums, etc are not affected at all by this PR.

If "Pollution producing" modules will be banned from beacons then indirectly they are affected - because they will no longer receive the "Pollution producing" bonus from beacons.

[LovelySanta]

I think having pollution penalty in "Productivity modules" is important - otherwise "Productivity modules pollution countering" aspect of the game will be removed (Productivity modules will not give penalty, so there will be nothing to counter...).

This is also my concern.. Im skeptical about this solution... Maybe we ask the devs first for improving base game mechanics about this... I'm not entirely sure how else we could fix it...

[domis86]

Maybe we ask the devs first for improving base game mechanics about this... I'm not entirely sure how else we could fix it...

You mean to allow creation of custom module categories?

[LovelySanta]

yes, something like that

[KiwiHawk]

It seems that deadlock requested this in 2019. Maybe if @LovelySanta you could comment saying that Angel's mods would like this added and if @kingarthur91 could also post saying it would be great to have for Pyanadon's, then the Factorio devs might actually look at it?

@kingarthur91 For Py, this would be a nice way of prevention the plants and animals in beacons.

https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=72130

[LovelySanta]

I left a comment.

[kingarthur91]

i have also commented and explained how py uses them and the resulting problems from the different direction we took to fix it

[Pezzawinkle]

Another horrible option is to nuke the recipe productivity potential of said recipes... by setting catalyst amount

[MrVSV]

when using Bob's modules, agricultural modules 4-8 have the same crafting time and it is less than t3 modules. for comparison, I post the crafting time of the remaining combined modules

[MrVSV]

I found several recipes that can use agricultural modules 1-3. they can also be used in the production of all circuits for modules. AB with components and tech overhaul

[empZealoth]

Maybe slightly off topic, but could you enable Agri Modules for soil production? It's insanely resource consuming for something pretty...basic. At least with agri modules it could be made more efficient...and kinda make sense

[KiwiHawk]

Maybe slightly off topic, but could you enable Agri Modules for soil production? It's insanely resource consuming for something pretty...basic. At least with agri modules it could be made more efficient...and kinda make sense

I completely agree that the soil recipe needs some attention. However I can't support it taking agriculture modules. It's much simpler to understand if agriculture modules can only go in bio buildings. There are other ways we can improve soil.

[empZealoth]

Maybe slightly off topic, but could you enable Agri Modules for soil production? It's insanely resource consuming for something pretty...basic. At least with agri modules it could be made more efficient...and kinda make sense

I completely agree that the soil recipe needs some attention. However I can't support it taking agriculture modules. It's much simpler to understand if agriculture modules can only go in bio buildings. There are other ways we can improve soil.

Soil production could be moved to bio buildings? Bioprocresor (obv rebalance for its giant size) mayhaps?