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SPIAT #2606

Closed fuerzhou closed 1 year ago

fuerzhou commented 2 years ago

Update the following URL to point to the GitHub repository of the package you wish to submit to Bioconductor

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bioc-issue-bot commented 2 years ago

Hi @fuerzhou

Thanks for submitting your package. We are taking a quick look at it and you will hear back from us soon.

The DESCRIPTION file for this package is:

Package: SPIAT
Type: Package
Title: Spatial Image Analysis of Tissues
Version: 0.99.0
Authors@R: c(
    person(given = "Anna",
 family="Trigos",
 role=c("aut"),
 email="anna.trigos@petermac.org"),
    person(given = "Yuzhou",
 family = " Feng",
 role=c("aut", "cre"),
 email="yuzhou.feng@petermac.org"),
    person(given = "Tianpei",
 family = " Yang",
 role="aut",
 email="yangtp3344@gmail.com"),
    person(given = "Mabel",
 family = " Li",
 role="aut"),
    person(given = "John",
 family = " Zhu",
 role="aut"),
    person(given = "Volkan",
 family=" Ozcoban",
 role="aut",
 email = "volkanozcoban1@gmail.com"),
    person(given = "Maria",
 family= "Doyle",
 role="aut",
 email = "maria.doyle@petermac.org"))
Description: SPIAT (Spatial Image Analysis of Tissues) is a suite of data processing, 
    quality control, visualization, data handling and data analysis tools for 
    multiplex immunohistochemistry. Converts INFORM or HALO images into a 
    SingleCellExperiment class. SPIAT includes novel algorithms for the 
    identification of cell clusters, cell margins and cell gradients, the 
    calculation of neighbourhood proportions, and algorithms for the prediction 
    of cell phenotypes in tissue images. SPIAT also includes speedy 
    implementations of the calculation of cell distances and detection of cell 
    communities.
License: Artistic-2.0
Encoding: UTF-8
Depends: 
    R (>= 4.1.0),
    SingleCellExperiment (>= 1.4.1),
    SummarizedExperiment
Imports: 
    apcluster (>= 1.4.7),
    ggplot2 (>= 3.2.1),
    gridExtra (>= 2.3),
    gtools (>= 3.8.1),
    reshape2 (>= 1.4.3),
    dplyr (>= 0.8.3),
    plotly (>= 4.9.0),
    RANN (>= 2.6.1),
    pracma (>= 2.2.5),
    dbscan (>= 1.1-5),
    mmand (>= 1.5.4),
    tibble (>= 2.1.3),
    grDevices,
    stats,
    utils,
    vroom,
    ComplexHeatmap,
    dittoSeq,
    spatstat.geom,
    alphahull,
    methods,
    spatstat.core,
    raster,
    sp,
    xROI,
    Seurat,
    elsa,
    Rtsne,
    umap,
    rlang
Suggests:
    BiocStyle,
    knitr,
    rmarkdown,
    pkgdown,
    testthat
biocViews: BiomedicalInformatics, CellBiology, Spatial, Clustering, DataImport, ImmunoOncology, QualityControl, SingleCell, Software, Visualization
BugReports: https://github.com/trigosteam/SPIAT/issues
RoxygenNote: 7.1.2
LazyData: true
VignetteBuilder: knitr
URL: https://trigosteam.github.io/SPIAT/
vjcitn commented 2 years ago

Your github action for R CMD check is failing on mac and windows ...? Is it ready for submission from the portability perspective?

vjcitn commented 2 years ago

Now I see that the reason for failure in github actions is due to lack of R 4.2 on those platforms.

fuerzhou commented 2 years ago

Yes, R 4.2 is not available for Mac and windows. Do I need to change anything for that?

fuerzhou commented 2 years ago

Hi @vjcitn,

May I ask if there is anything that I need to change for this package? If not, could we proceed to the next stage?

Thank you!

bioc-issue-bot commented 2 years ago

A reviewer has been assigned to your package. Learn what to expect during the review process.

IMPORTANT: Please read this documentation for setting up remotes to push to git.bioconductor.org. It is required to push a version bump to git.bioconductor.org to trigger a new build.

Bioconductor utilized your github ssh-keys for git.bioconductor.org access. To manage keys and future access you may want to active your Bioconductor Git Credentials Account

bioc-issue-bot commented 2 years ago

Dear Package contributor,

This is the automated single package builder at bioconductor.org.

Your package has been built on Linux, Mac, and Windows.

Congratulations! The package built without errors or warnings on all platforms.

Please see the build report for more details. This link will be active for 21 days.

Remember: if you submitted your package after July 7th, 2020, when making changes to your repository push to git@git.bioconductor.org:packages/SPIAT to trigger a new build. A quick tutorial for setting up remotes and pushing to upstream can be found here.

PeteHaitch commented 2 years ago

Hi @fuerzhou,

Sorry for how long it is taking me to review your package. I was only able to start looking at SPIAT this week, following the latest Bioconductor release and NHMRC grant deadlines. I'd hoped to have finished an initial review for you this week, but unfortunately I'm now sick and so that's not looking likely. Thank you for your understanding and I will provide my review as soon as possible.

Thanks, Pete

fuerzhou commented 2 years ago

@PeteHaitch

Thank you for your message. Please don't worry about this and rest well!

Take care, Yuzhou

PeteHaitch commented 2 years ago

Hi @fuerzhou,

Thank you for submitting SPIAT to Bioconductor. SPIAT is quite an ambitious package in its scope and has many functions. Again, I apologise it has taken so long to post an initial review.

Technically, the package is in a good state because it is passing most of the automated checks. It's great to see you seeking to operate with key Bioconductor classes. However, my main concern is that with this being used to spatial and imaging data that the main data object could/should be a SpatialExperiment object rather than a SingleCellExperiment object. @lmweber, @drighelli, and @HelenaLC, who develop the SpatialExperiment package, can likely advise better than I can on how best to transition from SingleCellExperiment to SpatialExperiment. For example, my initial impression is that the Cell.X.Position and Cell.Y.Position data, currently stored in the colData of the SingleCellExperiment, would be stored in the spatialCoords of a SpatialExperiment (see https://lmweber.org/OSTA-book/spatialexperiment.html for an illustration).

I'd like to better understand your choice of SingleCellExperiment over SpatialExperiment. I think that this choice of data class is a fundamental point that must be first addressed, but I have also provided additional comments in my review (separated into Required and Recommended) that I would also ask you to address. Please add your point-by-point replies to the review in this thread.

Cheers, Pete

Required

# Unevaluated code in §2.1.2.1 of vignette
class(formatted_image) # The formatted image is a SingleCellExperiment object
dim(colData(formatted_image))
dim(assay(formatted_image))
suppressPackageStartupMessages(library(SPIAT))
data("simulated_image")
image_splitter(simulated_image, number_of_splits=3, plot = TRUE)
#> Error in `[.data.frame`(cell_loc, , feature_colname): undefined columns selected

Recommended

format_image_to_sce <- function(format, path, etc...) {
  if (format == "HALO") {
    format_HALO_to_sce(...) 
  } else if (format == "INFORM") {
    format_INFORM_to_sce(...)
  } else if (format == "CODEX") {
    format_CODEX_to_sce(...)
  } else if (foramt == "Visium") {
    SpatialExperiment::read10xVisium(...)
  }
    # etc.
  }
}
❯ checking package dependencies ... NOTE
  Imports includes 26 non-default packages.
  Importing from so many packages makes the package vulnerable to any of
  them becoming unavailable.  Move as many as possible to Suggests and
  use conditionally.
drighelli commented 2 years ago

hi @PeteHaitch and @fuerzhou,

about the SpatialExperiment I'm not sure how to load data with other technologies, but for loading Visium data we have the read10xVisum function.

Additionally, the SpatialExperiment class has the imgData data structure specifically designed for image data handling. I think this could suit very well the case of the SPIAT package.

Hope this helps!

Dario

nilseling commented 2 years ago

Hi all, not sure if my comment is relevant here but I was in a similar situation when writing imcRtools. I decided to not support handling of multiplexed images as this can be done using cytomapper. With imcRtools I wanted to support the SpatialExperiment class (storing coordinates in spatialCoords) but for backward compatibility reasons (we have been using the SingleCellExperiment class for quite some years) the spatial analysis functions also support the SingleCellExperiment class (coordinates stored in colData, e.g. see here and for reader functions here). I agree with @drighelli that the SpatialExperiment class is quite suited for SPIAT but you might want to consider also supporting the SingleCellExperiment class if this is commonly used by the community. But please feel free to disagree :) Cheers, Nils

drighelli commented 2 years ago

Hi @nilseling,

thanks for your comments, it is true that the community is using the SingleCellExperiment class by storing the coordinates into the colData, but of course now with the SpatialExperiment it is possible to handle also the images directly with the new class, and we are coordinating with the community to support future spatial technologies with other images type as well. Additionally, some new functionalities for image handling are coming thanks to the contribution of other developers, and I'm pretty confident that more functionalities will be available in the future. So, please consider switching to the SpatialExperiment class when it comes to handling spatial technologies data into Bioconductor. Bests, Dario

fuerzhou commented 2 years ago

Thank you @PeteHaitch for your comprehensive review of SPIAT. We will read the comments carefully in the following days and address each one of the required actions and the recommended ones as well.   Thank you @nilseling @drighelli for your comments on SingleCellExperiment vs. SpatialExperiment. We started writing the package more than two years ago before SpatialExperiment was distributed in Bioconductor. We chose SingleCellExperiment because almost everyone in this field is familiar with it; therefore, it requires little additional knowledge for people to use our package. I agree that using SpatialExperiment is a trend for handling data of the emerging spatial technologies. The reasons why we still want to stick to SingleCellExperiment are:

  1. SPIAT is not designed specifically for spatial transcriptomics (ST) data while SpatialExperiment is mainly for ST, especially for 10X Visium. SPIAT can also read processed spatial proteomics data from platforms like MIBI, CODEX, and inForm and HALO (for Opal images) etc…
  2. SpatialExperiment assumes you have a microscopy image, while SPIAT is not meant to analyse raw microscopy images (e.g. analysis from pixel data), and therefore there is no practical reason to have an image associated with the object.
  3. In the future we will consider adding specific functions that read in microscopy images and plot the data onto it, but only as an optional extension as it is not a core intention of our project.

From these three points, SpatialExperiment does not suit the purpose of SPIAT and does not yield significant improvement of SPIAT. Since SpatialExperiment is built upon SingleCellExperiment, we believe that it’s better to use a more basic class if possible.

@PeteHaitch As such, we hope to continue using SingleCellExperiment. Please let us know your thoughts!

PeteHaitch commented 2 years ago

Ultimately, the choice is yours. However, I would still argue that a SpatialExperiment is the better fit for the type of data you are processing with SPIAT.


We started writing the package more than two years ago before SpatialExperiment was distributed in Bioconductor.

A totally fair reason for why when you initially developed the package you used SingleCellExperiment. However, as you note, that was more than 2 years ago and now is when you are submitting to Bioconductor. SpatialExperiment was introduced 1.5 years ago and, as a new user of a package titled 'Spatial Image Analysis of Tissues', I was expecting SPIAT to interoperate with the standard Bioconductor data class for that type of data, a SpatialExperiment,

We chose SingleCellExperiment because almost everyone in this field is familiar with it; therefore, it requires little additional knowledge for people to use our package.

A SpatialExperiment is a SingleCellExperiment (in the formal S4 sense).

library(SpatialExperiment)
spe <- SpatialExperiment()
is(spe, "SingleCellExperiment")
#> [1] TRUE

Therefore, SpatialExperiment inherits the same API for _SingleCellExperiment, and then adds some very useful spatial-specific bits. Because of this relationship, if a user is familiar with SingleCellExperiment, then they are 90% of the way to being familiar with a SpatialExperiment.

SPIAT is not designed specifically for spatial transcriptomics (ST) data while SpatialExperiment is mainly for ST, especially for 10X Visium.

I can see why you may think that, e.g., the opening sentence of the 'Description' in help("SpatialExperiment", "SpatialExperiment") says, "The SpatialExperiment class is designed to represent spatially resolved transcriptomics (ST) data". However, that's an inaccuracy in the documentation rather than an actual limitation (I'll raise this with the SpatialExperiment developers). The SpatialExperiment class isn't restricted to spatial transcriptomics data just as the SingleCellExperiment class isn't restricted to single-cell transcriptomics.

SPIAT can also read processed spatial proteomics data from platforms like MIBI, CODEX, and inForm and HALO (for Opal images) etc…

Proteomics data are fine to go in a SpatialExperiment, there's no restriction there. Again, these are all spatial and/or image related technologies, hence SpatialExperiment seems a better fit than SingleCellExperiment.

SpatialExperiment assumes you have a microscopy image, while SPIAT is not meant to analyse raw microscopy images (e.g. analysis from pixel data), and therefore there is no practical reason to have an image associated with the object.

SpatialExperiment does not assume you have a microscropy image, i.e. an image isn't a requirement for a SpatialExperiment (see help("SpatialExperiment", "SpatialExperiment") where imgData is documented as 'Optional'). Your data type do have spatial co-ordinates, however, which are not a natural feature of a SingleCellExperiment but are a natural feature of a SpatialExperiment.

In the future we will consider adding specific functions that read in microscopy images and plot the data onto it, but only as an optional extension as it is not a core intention of our project.

If you are even considering this, then it's going to be easier if your main data structure already supports images (i.e. SpatialExperiment).


My point in all this is that now (during the Bioconductor submission and review process) is the time to get those decisions 'right', rather than having to modify a Bioconductor-released version of SPIAT at a later time when you have to preserve previous behaviour for compatibility with previous Bioconductor-released versions. At a high-level I think the changes would involve:

As I said, ultimately, the choice is yours. Please proceed with your other responses to the initial review, as whether you choose SingleCellExperiment or SpatialExperiment as the main data class won't affect whether your package is accepted or not. I will be on leave and offline until June 9.

fuerzhou commented 2 years ago

Thank you for your reply. We are convinced that we should switch to SpatialExperiment and will start making the changes along with other responses to the review.

Have a good break!

annatrigos commented 2 years ago

Thank you again for the comments. We have been working on all the recommended and required updates, including switching to SpatialExperiment, and we will soon be uploading the updated version. Thanks

PeteHaitch commented 1 year ago

Closing this for now. @fuerzhou Please re-open the issue if and when you would like to proceed with the submission.

bioc-issue-bot commented 1 year ago

This issue is being closed because there has been no progress for an extended period of time. You may reopen the issue when you have the time to actively participate in the review / submission process. Please also keep in mind that a package accepted to Bioconductor requires a commitment on your part to ongoing maintenance.

Thank you for your interest in Bioconductor.

fuerzhou commented 1 year ago

Test: Does the issue reopen automatically with a new comment?

fuerzhou commented 1 year ago

Hi @vjcitn @PeteHaitch,

I have submitted the updated version to Bioconductor. Shall we reopen the issue? I will submit my response to the review after seeing the build is successful.

Thank you!

bioc-issue-bot commented 1 year ago

Dear @fuerzhou ,

We have reopened the issue to continue the review process. Please remember to push a version bump to git.bioconductor.org to trigger a new build.

bioc-issue-bot commented 1 year ago

Received a valid push on git.bioconductor.org; starting a build for commit id: b997ca5198f38c38fe83e2539d87e928a243be00

bioc-issue-bot commented 1 year ago

Dear Package contributor,

This is the automated single package builder at bioconductor.org.

Your package has been built on Linux, Mac, and Windows.

Congratulations! The package built without errors or warnings on all platforms.

Please see the build report for more details. This link will be active for 21 days.

Remember: if you submitted your package after July 7th, 2020, when making changes to your repository push to git@git.bioconductor.org:packages/SPIAT to trigger a new build. A quick tutorial for setting up remotes and pushing to upstream can be found here.

fuerzhou commented 1 year ago

@PeteHaitch Thank you again for the review of our package and for your insightful feedback. I have tried to resolve all the required and recommended issues. The checked items without comments were directly fixed following the suggestions; some items have follow up explanations under the comments. Please do let us know if you have further comments or suggestions.

Required

  1. NOTE: Consider multiples of 4 spaces for line indents; 884 lines (10%) are not.

    I have tried my best to change the indentation generated from Roxygen2, but they cannot be changed manually. Please do advise if there is a way to do so.

  2. NOTE: Consider shorter lines; NOTE: The recommended function length is 50 lines or less.

These two notes are related to each other and I have tried to reduce them.

  1. NOTE: Avoid using '=' for assignment and use '<-' instead.

    I checked all the files and there shouldn't be any. Do you have any suggestions on how to automatically find out where the issue is?

  2. NOTE: Cannot determine whether maintainer is subscribed to the Bioc-Devel mailing list (requires admin credentials).

I have subscribed.

I have added the following details to the documentation of format_image_to_spe(). It is also stated in the vignette. The format of "Phenotype" column: For example, a cell positive for both "CD3" and "CD4" markers has the "CD3,CD4" cell phenotype. The phenotype has to be strictly formatted in such a way where each positive marker has to be separated by a comma, with no space in between, and the order of the positive markers has to be the same as the order in the assay.

By SPIAT

We use “Phenotype” field to only represent the combination of markers positive. Other definitions have to go to other defined columns. This can be done by define_celltypes(). This is described in the tutorial.

The response is for the two comments above. I have made this both internal and external. The external one will return a list of spe for clarity. And the internal one will return a list of data frames for convenient computation of further analyses like computing the spatial autocorrelation. We have also received issues raised from the community using this function and the current version should have fixed it.

Recommended

Thanks for the suggestion! I have added more tests. And format_image_to_spe is now reformatted.

We now split this function into several functions and wrap them up in the main one. The main function format_image_to_spe() is made of format_inform_to_spe(), format_halo_to_spe(), …

We have transformed to SpatialExperiment and use the default “data” assay.

We decided to remove this functionality because we do not have competitive tools for ST data yet. We decided to focus only on spatial proteomics at the moment.

I have deleted this function.

I have changed it to one plot.

I have made it clearer.

This is a very good suggestion. We would like to incorporate this into all of our plot functions in the next update.

This function is calculating the difference of AUC of two curves. Hence, AUC values can be negative. We give an explanation of AUC negative values in the tutorial.

We have removed redundant packages and have just kept all necessary packages.

I could not set LazyData to false - if set to false, our external data cannot be accessed by the user.

The documentation for defined_image was correct but yes confusing. I have made it clearer.

PeteHaitch commented 1 year ago

Thank you for responding to the review, @fuerzhou. I'm a little behind on my reviews but I will try to finalise the review before I go on leave next Thursday.

bioc-issue-bot commented 1 year ago

Received a valid push on git.bioconductor.org; starting a build for commit id: c36dde356a66aa66d9778181e996d9b044cede4e

bioc-issue-bot commented 1 year ago

Dear Package contributor,

This is the automated single package builder at bioconductor.org.

Your package has been built on Linux, Mac, and Windows.

Congratulations! The package built without errors or warnings on all platforms.

Please see the build report for more details. This link will be active for 21 days.

Remember: if you submitted your package after July 7th, 2020, when making changes to your repository push to git@git.bioconductor.org:packages/SPIAT to trigger a new build. A quick tutorial for setting up remotes and pushing to upstream can be found here.

PeteHaitch commented 1 year ago

Thank you for making the required changes and carefully considering the recommended changes, @fuerzhou.

I have a few final minor requests/queries before I accept SPIAT into Bioconductor:

bioc-issue-bot commented 1 year ago

Received a valid push on git.bioconductor.org; starting a build for commit id: dafe00a944f3cbeb978cb3b987ed849f073ad3d2

bioc-issue-bot commented 1 year ago

Dear Package contributor,

This is the automated single package builder at bioconductor.org.

Your package has been built on Linux, Mac, and Windows.

Congratulations! The package built without errors or warnings on all platforms.

Please see the build report for more details. This link will be active for 21 days.

Remember: if you submitted your package after July 7th, 2020, when making changes to your repository push to git@git.bioconductor.org:packages/SPIAT to trigger a new build. A quick tutorial for setting up remotes and pushing to upstream can be found here.

fuerzhou commented 1 year ago

Hi @PeteHaitch, thank you very much for the review and the pull request. I have fixed the following points and merged your pull request to the main branch.

bioc-issue-bot commented 1 year ago

Your package has been accepted. It will be added to the Bioconductor nightly builds.

Thank you for contributing to Bioconductor!

Reviewers for Bioconductor packages are volunteers from the Bioconductor community. If you are interested in becoming a Bioconductor package reviewer, please see Reviewers Expectations.

PeteHaitch commented 1 year ago

Thank you for your responses, @fuerzhou . I'm pleased to accept SPIAT into Bioconductor 🎉 Thank you for your contribution!

PeteHaitch commented 1 year ago

One final thing I just spotted: please remove the Dockerfile from your git repo or explain why it is required.

fuerzhou commented 1 year ago

@PeteHaitch, thank you again for such huge support with the package. I have removed the Dockerfile and pushed it to Bioconductor.

PeteHaitch commented 1 year ago

My pleasure!

fuerzhou commented 1 year ago

May I ask if the package is on Bioconductor devel branch? I tried installing it from Bioconductor myself but received a warning: package ‘SPIAT’ is not available for Bioconductor version '3.16'.

lshep commented 1 year ago

I will process all the accepted packages tomorrow. Once that happens it will become available in devel.

fuerzhou commented 1 year ago

Thank you @lshep!

I have updated the package and pushed the new version to Bioconductor. I made a version bump in DESCRIPTION, but there is no build initiated. Could you please help with this? Thanks!

lshep commented 1 year ago

once its accepted it will not be a build on demand. It gets on to the daily system and run on the schedule listed here . I will process these momentarily.

lshep commented 1 year ago

The master branch of your GitHub repository has been added to Bioconductor's git repository.

To use the git.bioconductor.org repository, we need an 'ssh' key to associate with your github user name. If your GitHub account already has ssh public keys (https://github.com/fuerzhou.keys is not empty), then no further steps are required. Otherwise, do the following:

  1. Add an SSH key to your github account
  2. Submit your SSH key to Bioconductor

See further instructions at

https://bioconductor.org/developers/how-to/git/

for working with this repository. See especially

https://bioconductor.org/developers/how-to/git/new-package-workflow/ https://bioconductor.org/developers/how-to/git/sync-existing-repositories/

to keep your GitHub and Bioconductor repositories in sync.

Your package will be included in the next nigthly 'devel' build (check-out from git at about 6 pm Eastern; build completion around 2pm Eastern the next day) at

https://bioconductor.org/checkResults/

(Builds sometimes fail, so ensure that the date stamps on the main landing page are consistent with the addition of your package). Once the package builds successfully, you package will be available for download in the 'Devel' version of Bioconductor using BiocManager::install("SPIAT"). The package 'landing page' will be created at

https://bioconductor.org/packages/SPIAT

If you have any questions, please contact the bioc-devel mailing list (https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/bioc-devel); this issue will not be monitored further.

fuerzhou commented 1 year ago

Hi @lshep,

I encountered this error when updating the RELEASE_3_16 branch on upstream.

$ git push upstream RELEASE_3_16
Enumerating objects: 35, done.
Counting objects: 100% (35/35), done.
Delta compression using up to 8 threads
Compressing objects: 100% (21/21), done.
Writing objects: 100% (21/21), 2.85 KiB | 62.00 KiB/s, done.
Total 21 (delta 17), reused 0 (delta 0), pack-reused 0
remote: FATAL: W refs/heads/RELEASE_3_16 packages/SPIAT fuerzhou DENIED by fallthru
remote: error: hook declined to update refs/heads/RELEASE_3_16
To git.bioconductor.org:packages/SPIAT.git
 ! [remote rejected] RELEASE_3_16 -> RELEASE_3_16 (hook declined)
error: failed to push some refs to 'git.bioconductor.org:packages/SPIAT.git'

I have tried ssh -T git@git.bioconductor.org suggested in the FAQ and confirmed that I have R W access to the package.

Could you please help me with this? Thanks!

fuerzhou commented 1 year ago

Following up on the previous message, I pushed a commit to the dev branch on Bioconductor and it worked. It seems like only the push to the release branch doesn't work. Since we had an important bug fix in the new version, it is vital to make the commit to Bioconductor before the next release. We would really appreciate your help with this!

lshep commented 1 year ago

Please be mindful of the release schedule and as announced on the mailing list the RELEASE_3_16 branch was frozen as of April 10. See this announcement . Pushing to devel will ensure that the change will be included when we branch next week for RELEASE_3_17. There is nothing more to do at this time

fuerzhou commented 9 months ago

Hi @lshep I made a mistake by pushing a last minute commit to SPIAT devel branch on 20 Oct. Now the package build has error on Linux system. I wonder if it's possible to revert back to the previous version before tomorrow's 3.18 release. I'm worried that the package is excluded from the release.

lshep commented 9 months ago

@fuerzhou It will still be included in the release. Instead of reverting fixing with another version bump is preferred. Cheers