CatalogueOfLife / coldp

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nomStatus should be replaced with NOMEN #16

Closed mjy closed 3 years ago

mjy commented 5 years ago

As it stands http://api.col.plus/vocab/nomStatus is a frankestein combination of values, it seems like it can be improved down the road

Some observations can be made:

Given all this, it seems like this should be replaced by references to NOMEN. NOMEN includes a range of both general and specific statuses, and is a much more robust context for nomenclature in general.

mdoering commented 5 years ago

Thanks Matt, we had discussed this in the beginning and specifically designed the vocabulary for a different purpose. It needs to work across codes and was meant to address only 2 key questions: The vocablary is kept minimal to basically answer two fundamental questions:

  1. Has the name nomenclatural standing and should be considered in nomenclatural questions?
  2. Can the name be used for a taxon?

All more and code specific details are supposed to go into an unstructured field for nomenclatural notes which can inform users, but will not necessarily be understood by machines.

As we strive for cross code values we decided to follow the BioCode terminology as much as possible instead of picking from various codes or invent sth new.

acceptable aka potentially valid is not the same as available. It corresponds to the botanical legitimate which is lacking in the strict sense from zoology. It is an available name and potentially valid, i.e. not otherwise invalid for any other objective reason, such as being a junior homonym.

Please see the NAMES.md document for more reasoning and the Java docs for the enumerations for more references.

mdoering commented 5 years ago

we should use suppressed in favor of rejected according to the BioCode

mdoering commented 5 years ago

and we might want to add established for available names if it is not know whether the name is acceptable (legitimate) or unacceptable (illegitimate).

mjy commented 5 years ago

Thanks for the quick response. This decision makes very little sense to me for many reasons, but I'll dig deeper and attempt to figure out the logic behind it before I spew further.

Until then two things: 1) NOMEN is designed to do exactly what you want (and much more IMO, perhaps this is the issue); and 2) can you point to Taxonomists who actually know Biocode let alone use it?

mjy commented 5 years ago

"4. Separate rules for organismal nomenclature, contained in the PhyloCode, are being established by analogy to those in the Special Codes but are based on different principles. Any names that may be proposed under the PhyloCode have no standing under the BioCode."

Perfect, many (other standards) exist, so let's make another. Fair enough, NOMEN is a similar attempt. :)

mdoering commented 5 years ago

@mjy the main reasons for not going with NOMEN to me are a) no cross code values and b) its complexity (because of the codes complexities). It might make sense to have an additional field that adhers to NOMEN? we can then easily derive our simpler one which seriously is just 5 very broad concepts found across codes.

The entries for chresonym and manuscript are values derived from very practical needs to deal with data outside the codes. The questionable entry doubtful is in between, with the initial desire to not include it even though it is found in codes. We ended up adding it so one can deal with real data that often is just that, doubtful and not fully investigated.

mdoering commented 5 years ago

How about adding a new nomenStatus field that takes a NOMEN URI? Or what is your expected values to share NOMEN states?

mjy commented 5 years ago

@mdoering More or less agreeing.

Screen Shot 2019-09-05 at 6 21 46 AM

We'll proceed with our issue #1040. If we can satisfactorly map our logic to NOMEN then we'll update NOMEN with our mappings, if not we'll report here.

mdoering commented 4 years ago

For the CoL Clearinghouse we suggest to allow all NOMEN values to be used directly in coldps Name.status: https://github.com/CatalogueOfLife/backend/issues/716

mdoering commented 4 years ago

based on https://github.com/CatalogueOfLife/backend/issues/908 I feel we should consider to recommend NOMEN status values to be used for sharing. As URLs as values put many people off and we want ColDP to be a human readable format I would suggest we accept various forms of NOMEN values. These are currently all accepted by the ChecklistBank importer:

The importer could interpret incorrect original spelling alone only if also the nomenclatural code would be given for the name.