Closed siuc-nate closed 5 years ago
Nate, I'd need to see this in a json-ld encoded example. The property currently has a domain of ceterms:LearningOpportunityProfile
where such a property seems appropriate. I can't imagine, without an example, when a ceterms:Credential
would have need of a ceterms:instructionalProgramType
in the absence of a ceterms:LearningOpportunityProfile
.
I know it's come up before (more than once), and what you said may well be why we haven't done so. But it does keep coming up. We should discuss it with @jkitchensSIUC and @cwd-mparsons so that we're all on the same page this time (and next time).
Nate, how does it "keep coming up"? I'd like to see a real example in our current credential descriptions of such an occurrence that was hindered by not having it. I am obviously grappling with seeing how a credential can have an instructional program type in the absence of a LearningOpportunityProfile which does include the property.
In the most recent instance, it was a discussion between @jkitchensSIUC and @cwd-mparsons regarding some credential info that led to them asking about it.
Anyway, I think perhaps it would be more semantically correct to use the existing ceterms:subject
already on Credential, and use CIP codes as the values to which subject points. The credential isn't an instructional program, so it wouldn't have an instructional program type, even though it relates to the material in those CIP codes.
If it's deemed important, why can't it roll up in the viewer to the credential display like competencies that hang off learning opportunities and assessment, but roll up.
Per our 3/23/2018 conversation:
A credential is not an instructional program, so it would not be classified as one. Instead, use ceterms:subject
to point from a credential to the CIP codes that credential covers or relates to (or, ideally, attach the CIP code to the relevant learning opportunities and connect those to the credential).
We will continue to monitor usage/data to see if this needs to be revisited.
Nate pointed me to this issue after our partners in Indiana asked for the best way to publish CIP codes so they could better tie the data in the Registry to other databases they have. They've published information about 2,000 credentials but for a variety of reasons have not published learning opportunities related to the credentials, and each of them have related CIP codes. Ken Sauer is leading this project and helped develop CIP codes and believes they should be related to the credential and not a learning opportunity.
Though the definition of a CIP code mentions a program completion activity, all of the partners I've talked to understand CIP codes to be tied directly to the degree and not the coursework.
Yes, that's my understanding as well. The CIP identifier is used by NC-SARA at the credential level for all distance education programs. I'll reopen this issue for further discussion. Spring 2018 Reporting for SARA Institutions
Adding the authoritative definition of CIP codes to this issue for reference. IPEDS: Classification of Instructional Programs (CIP)
For info: I was asked about CIP coding recently with respect to Courses and EducationalOccupationalCredentials in schema.org. My reply was that as it seems to be a classification of the subject of a degree, it can be handled through an educationalAlignment to an AlignmentObject with CIP as its educationalFramework . That works for schema.org as it is a pattern that works for other countries' classification systems. Not knowing much about CIP, I would be interested if that seems a sensible approach.
@erafal10
Nate pointed me to this issue after our partners in Indiana asked for the best way to publish CIP codes so they could better tie the data in the Registry to other databases they have.
The "best" way is, unfortunately, not the easiest way. The best way (in terms of the resultant data) is for them to publish the credentials (which they have done) and their related learning opportunities (which, as you indicate, they have not). The credentials would then need to be tied to the learning opportunities which, in turn, are tied to the related CIP codes.
Though the definition of a CIP code mentions a program completion activity, all of the partners I've talked to understand CIP codes to be tied directly to the degree and not the coursework.
This is likely a side-effect of many organizations conflating credentials with the requirements for those credentials. Almost all of the degree programs I've seen throughout this project are described by their owners as though the credential and its program are the same singular entity. This is not how CTDL conceptualizes the data.
@jeff-grann
Yes, that's my understanding as well. The CIP identifier is used by NC-SARA at the credential level for all distance education programs. I'll reopen this issue for further discussion.
Can you expand on this? It would seem that you're saying that the CIP identifier, even though it's referenced by the credential, is nonetheless actually tied to the educational program. But maybe I'm missing something.
@philbarker
Structurally, yes, that is how ceterms:instructionalProgramType
works - but that property is tied to ceterms:LearningOpportunityProfile
and ceterms:AssessmentProfile
, which in turn are related to Credentials. This is the correct way to associate a credential with a CIP code under the current version of CTDL.
In my opinion, CIP code is currently where it belongs: A classification of instructional programs - a.k.a. Learning Opportunities. It is not a classification of Credentials.
If we look at the CIP codes themselves, the definitions of all (at least all the ones I clicked on) of them start with something akin to "Instructional programs that ____". You could argue that it's possible to classify credentials by the names of the CIP codes (which are on the list I linked), but if you click through to the definitions of each code, it's clear that the CIP codes are intended to describe what we call Learning Opportunities - meaning that the association would not strictly fit.
This leads me back to https://github.com/CredentialEngine/vocabularies/issues/513#issuecomment-375766191 where in our discussion we concluded that you could associate CIP codes with Credentials via the ceterms:subject property, defined as:
Words or brief phrases describing the topicality of the entity; select subject terms from an existing enumeration of such terms.
That is a much better fit for what you're trying to express than the strict definition of ceterms:instructionalProgramType:
Type of instructional program; select from an existing enumeration of such types.
In other words, if you want to treat CIP codes as a list of subjects (again, focusing more on the name of the code than its definition), then I think the best way to do that is through the somewhat looser association offered by ceterms:subject
- which effectively says "this Credential is related to this subject/CIP code" rather than the strict association offered by ceterms:instructionalProgramType
which would be saying "this Credential is an instructional program and is classified by this code" which would be inaccurate.
Again, I strongly suspect that the desire to add CIP codes to Credentials is due to the common conflation of a Credential with its own requirements, which, in the context of CTDL, are considered to be separate standalone entities.
In short, my opinion is:
If you want to do it right:
Credential -requires-> Learning Opportunity -instructionalProgramType-> CIP Code
If you want to do it right enough and also more easily:
Credential -subject-> CIP Code
(And nothing precludes you from doing both)
Imagine a bachelor degree that is a result of 20 to forty or more learning opportunities. Each student can take a very different set of learning opps with their related CIP codes. That might suggest having to have all possible CIP codes associated with a credential, and not all holders of the credential will have taken all of the lopps.
Phil, I think in markup that you would not be off-base using CIP as you describe. I don't think that conclusion carries over to CE.
The Introduction to CIP has the following:
"The Classification of Instructional Programs (CIP) is a taxonomic coding scheme of instructional programs. ...
- An instructional program must be offered by, through, or under the auspices of an education institution or other recognized provider.
- The program must consist of more than one isolated course or learning experience and must not be a haphazard collection of unrelated courses or experiences.
- There must be a set of structured learning experiences, defined by an institution or other provider, leading to a completion point that is formally certified by a degree, another formal award, or some other form of recognition." --https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/cipcode/Files/Introduction_CIP2010.pdf
Bullet no. 3 in sum says that the CIP identifies "structured learning experiences" that is CERTIFIED by a degree etc. The instructional program and the degree are not the same thing. That is exactly as CTDL has modeled it. It is likely that a college or university may not think of a instructional program and a resulting degree as separate "things", but they are.
Would it be the end of the earth if CTLD added ceterms:Credential
to the included domains for ceterms:instructionalProgramType
for use in systems like the CER? Probably not...beyond reinforcing bad habits...i.e., not including instructional programs.
If we extend the last part of my previous post a little further, it makes sense for use cases where, for instance, a Credential does one or more of the following:
You wouldn't be able to express any of that detail with just the instructionalProgramType property - you need to use the correct set of connective properties and objects to say what you really mean. Otherwise you'd just end up with a Credential with an instructionalProgramType of A, B, C, D, E, and F, which would be misleading.
@cwd-mparsons (at least in schema.org) those 20-40 learning opportunities would be aggregated into a Course of many parts (a program of instruction, if you like) and it is that top-level course that would have the CIP associated with it. I think that is a good way of talking about what @jeff-grann referred to as "the credential level for all distance education programs" which avoids the error of conflating a Credential with its own requirements, as @siuc-nate says.
@stuartasutton apologies, by 'degree' in comment above I meant program of instruction leading to a degree. I fully agree with what you and @siuc-nate describe, and would take a similar approach in schema.org. As it happens, both schema.org/Course and (the yet to be approved) schema.org/EducationalOccupationalCredential are CreativeWorks, so the same model would work if you did want to classify the subject of a Degree Credential (though using about works too).
It doesn't seem like CIP codes are intended to describe particular learning opportunities based on the this section from the introduction document.
The following programs are, therefore, not included in the CIP:
- In-house, professional, or on-the-job training activities that are not recognized by an education institution or provider and that do not lead to any kind of formal award, credit, or certification.
- Subject matter specializations or individual courses within a program that are not treated as a major and are generally not recognized by the education institution as a formal program offering
Should CTDL and the registry profile explicitly support CIP codes via a new property (similar to how we support an organization's ipedsID)? Seems like such an addition will help us support future outcomes research & partnerships with Indiana, NC-SARA, & IPEDS. I'm concerned relying only on the text-based subject property will reduce the market signals institutions are formally sending using this controlled taxonomy. However it gets resolved, I think we should also add some explicit CIP code guidance into the registry's "basics" explanation page.
I'm not sure I understand your reasoning, @jeff-grann. Nothing says that ceterms:instructionalProgramType
is limited to the scope of CIP.
I'm just suggesting we create specific support for the CIP codes in CTDL, the registry profile, and the CE publishing technology. If learning opportunity profiles are required, then we could extend the instructionalProgramType to the CE registry profile and define a new property for CIP codes. I guess it's also possible we could use the existing CredentialAlignmentObject and help users by prepopulating the CIP code framework info, although I my preference is for explicit CIP code support in CTDL similar to ipedsID.
@jeff-grann ceterms:instructionalProgramType
covers this already.
Where?
@jeff-grann The definition is fairly generic by design since it also covers other non-CIP frameworks, but the rest of the information about it does strongly "suggest" using it with CIP codes. For example, the usage note for instructionalProgramType reads:
For U.S. credentials, best practice is to use a framework such as the CIP (Classification of Instructional Programs). Other credentials may use any framework of the class CTDL InstructionalProgramClassification.
It also makes a reference to the ceterms:InstructionalProgramClassification class, which is one of several placeholder classes in CTDL meant to generically describe something without actually issuing any properties to it. In this case, the definition makes reference to CIP codes:
Class of concept schemes defining instructional program types such as the CIP codes in the U.S.
Structurally, CIP codes are ultimately just another controlled vocabulary framework (much like NAICS and SOC) so it makes sense to use CredentialAlignmentObject with them as we do with other controlled vocabularies.
I don't see what the benefit/value-add would be to adding a dedicated CIP property. Perhaps you can expand on that some more. I'm not sure what you mean by this:
If learning opportunity profiles are required, then we could extend the instructionalProgramType to the CE registry profile and define a new property for CIP codes.
Learning Opportunity profiles aren't required, since not all credentials would have them. It would, however, make sense to add instructionalProgramType to the list of "recommended" properties for learning opportunity profile, I think - but that would be unrelated to any new property (which itself would also likely need to be added to the recommended list). It could also create confusion to have a CIP-specific property alongside an almost-CIP-specific property.
To clarify, I was saying if learning opportunities are required to support CIP codes, as opposed to creating a new credential property. Understood that LO are not required for all credentials.
On the value, I think we have to realize that the CIP code is used widely to classify programs for a variety of purposes and will function as a key link to future outcomes research. That's why I think we should develop specific support for it to ensure we have consistent data on this field. The flexibility of the current approach will result in inconsistent data that will need to be cleaned to be useful. For example, because the CIP code has both a number and a description, I could see our users varying in which they provide.
I also don't see these ceterms:instructionalProgramType or ceterms:InstructionalProgramClassification in the CE profile and assume they are not supported in the publisher yet.
Jeff - I do think the ceterms:InstructionalProgramClassification is supported in the publisher, and for the manual publisher you can search/publish CIP codes directly.
However, the issue here is that most people that I've talked to want to publish CIP codes directly on the credential and not the learning opportunity. I understand the decision made earlier was to use "subjects" but think that will end up being messy.
I've only seen these published using the subject property by Capella. which I agree is not a good solution. Do we have an example of a credential in the registry that uses ceterms:instructionalProgramType or ceterms:InstructionalProgramClassification?
Here's an example of a learning opportunity that has one: http://credentialfinder.org/learningopportunity/51/Graduate_Certificate_in_Cybersecurity-Critical_Infrastructure. The CIP codes don't currently roll up to the credential.
Thanks for expanding, @jeff-grann - to your points:
That's why I think we should develop specific support for it to ensure we have consistent data on this field. The flexibility of the current approach will result in inconsistent data that will need to be cleaned to be useful.
The flexibility technically exists for all of the controlled vocabulary fields, by design - we want to ensure that CTDL works both in the future and internationally, where CIP codes may not be relevant to a given situation. The property is intended to reference CIP codes or anything CIP-code-esque, so it already covers the use case for the proposed CIP code property.
For example, because the CIP code has both a number and a description, I could see our users varying in which they provide.
This is part of why we use the CredentialAlignmentObject - it provides specific fields for each of those pieces of information (i.e., ceterms:codedNotation
for the number and ceterms:targetNodeDescription
for the text). This should negate the need for any cleaning, as long as the data is published correctly (which applies to any field in any class).
I also don't see these ceterms:instructionalProgramType or ceterms:InstructionalProgramClassification in the CE profile and assume they are not supported in the publisher yet.
Almost any term not currently listed as required/recommended is considered optional, so it is technically in the profile, just not in a highly touted way. If you click on either Learning Opportunity Profile or Assessment Profile in the page you linked, they both have ceterms:instructionalProgramType
. They also do exist in the editor on the publisher, and have for some time:
@erafal10
However, the issue here is that most people that I've talked to want to publish CIP codes directly on the credential and not the learning opportunity. I understand the decision made earlier was to use "subjects" but think that will end up being messy.
Again, this is not how CTDL conceptualizes those entities - Credentials and their associated Learning Opportunities are considered to be separate and standalone. We don't want to promote putting the data in the wrong place (as I think we already do with some other terms, unfortunately) since it eventually defeats the purpose of having a schema (or at least, of having AssessmentProfile and LearningOpportunityProfile) to begin with.
@jeff-grann
I've only seen these published using the subject property by Capella. which I agree is not a good solution.
That is the correct way to publish the data (if you only want to publish the credential), as I explained in the bottom half of this post.
@erafal10
The CIP codes don't currently roll up to the credential.
On the display, no (this could be changed), but a consumer of the data would find the relationship.
@jeff-grann @erafal10 Let me try another angle: What would a property that only uses CIP codes enable you to express with CTDL that you can't currently express with the existing properties?
Jeff, you say:
"However, the issue here is that most people that I've talked to want to publish CIP codes directly on the credential and not the learning opportunity."
Is that because they don't include learning opportunities to which they can be attached? I can show you hundreds of AA and bachelor degree credentials in the Finder without a learning opportunity in sight. The conclusion I draw there is that they also don't include competencies because those, too, are attached to learning opportunities and assessments. Maturation of the CER data demands that they be guided in that direction. Including learning opportunities is not a heavy lift for batch-load people. Until we nudge them to do it, we'll continue to get requests to use data incorrectly. AND, a major, major means of comparing credentials by competencies is lost.
Here's an example of a learning opportunities (course) with associated competency framework data.
{
"@id": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-bd95a07c-854e-47cb-87a2-c5201de9d6e2",
"@type": "ceterms:Certificate",
"@context": "http://credreg.net/ctdl/schema/context/json",
"ceterms:ctid": "ce-bd95a07c-854e-47cb-87a2-c5201de9d6e2",
"ceterms:name": "BOC Level I Training Certificate of Completion",
"ceterms:ownedBy": [
{
"@id": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-db19fb99-fb9e-4fd0-a7fb-28d44745842b"
}
],
"ceterms:targetLearningOpportunity": [
{
"@type": "ceterms:LearningOpportunityProfile",
"@id": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-889b0d6e-a1b6-4f81-94b5-b5e6495f2a0e",
"ceterms:ctid": "ce-889b0d6e-a1b6-4f81-94b5-b5e6495f2a0e",
"ceterms:name": "BOC 1001: Energy Efficient Operation of Building HVAC Systems",
"ceterms:description": "In this two-day class, participants will learn about the Building Operator Certification training program and the requirements for demonstrating their knowledge and ability to apply the essentials of effective and energy efficient operations and maintenance. Participants will learn the fundamentals of building systems, including the envelope, heating, cooling, and air and ventilating systems, to be able to understand and relate how those systems interact with each other, the building, the occupants, and the environment.",
"ceterms:teaches": [
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-164c8e3a-9467-48c7-855a-a6dd8f1974ed",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1001/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1001: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Describe the building operator's role in achieving and sustaining energy-efficient building operation."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-50801c5b-66a2-412d-8a80-5f638b7ea00c",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1001/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1001: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Conceptually map the integration of a building's systems and how components interact with each other, the building, its occupants, and the environment."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-19954a3f-9a24-4031-82d0-468548238af1",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1001/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1001: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Recall how to maintain energy using building systems, equipment, and envelope to minimize energy use and resources usages as well as the building envelope and heat transfer characteristics."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-21829923-f6fb-4f11-86ab-bea1ec4d75c8",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1001/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1001: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Describe how climate location will likely influence load, operation and maintenance, and the energy efficiency of various approaches to HVAC."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-18c21eb2-4f7b-4552-914b-a8dd97752d4d",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1001/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1001: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Describe various energy sources currently in use for heating, cooling, and ventilation, their likely costs per BTU, and their impact on carbon dioxide emissions."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-85f7af2b-6d69-493d-8774-29ea36ae49f5",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1001/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1001: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Discuss the benefits of preventive maintenance and troubleshooting service records programs for HVAC equipment and controls."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-d8ccc56b-7667-4c94-af44-9d573c7b4fb6",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1001/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1001: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Recognize various environmental conditions that emphasize or challenge optimum occupant performance and energy efficiency for a building?s air delivery systems (heating, cooling, and ventilation)."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-d8aacafa-5e62-43ec-b853-73bba4c1110b",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1001/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1001: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Explain troubleshooting and optimization approaches for heating and cooling units, systematic diagnostic procedures, and determination of repair needs."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-2c44ea2c-a2ba-4598-bd7f-f82a00d59518",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1001/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1001: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Recall building shell evaluation techniques and proven retrofit approaches that reduce energy use."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-7fb40346-5ae0-4cc1-9541-41363d8e7b62",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1001/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1001: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Recall types of HVAC equipment that are deployed in high-performance buildings (e.g., condensing boilers, ground-source heat pumps, chilled beams)."
}
]
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:LearningOpportunityProfile",
"@id": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-5dd198cd-e0d0-4a1e-94af-1b0e6514dfb6",
"ceterms:ctid": "ce-5dd198cd-e0d0-4a1e-94af-1b0e6514dfb6",
"ceterms:name": "BOC 1002: Measuring and Benchmarking Energy Performance",
"ceterms:description": "In this two-day class, participants will learn about the Building Operator Certification training program and the requirements for demonstrating their knowledge and ability to apply the essentials of effective and energy efficient operations and maintenance. Participants will learn the fundamentals of building systems, including the envelope, heating, cooling, and air and ventilating systems, to be able to understand and relate how those systems interact with each other, the building, the occupants, and the environment.",
"ceterms:teaches": [
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-59da6211-255c-42e8-a498-b4a4d0198ba3",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1002/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1002: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "List major energy loads in commercial buildings."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-541584e2-d158-453b-a793-fdb7212e253c",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1002/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1002: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Convert energy units to BTUs and calculate energy use index for your building."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-3312e182-13d4-4b35-bc8e-530f8b712bbe",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1002/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1002: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Cite the benefit of using spreadsheets to compute energy use indices and construct energy profiles for fuels used in the building."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-9e2b74b6-baa5-4bc7-8da8-6f4de5a949f1",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1002/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1002: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Identify and prioritize conservation opportunities"
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-1cf69a31-c420-4d61-bd85-aac4b298b2e9",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1002/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1002: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Identify opportunities to improve operation and maintenance procedures."
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-005cb0fa-5970-4a42-91d3-71fdf2df2be2",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1002/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1002: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Benchmark a building."
}
]
},
{
"@type": "ceterms:LearningOpportunityProfile",
"@id": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-889b0d6e-a1b6-4f81-94b5-b5e6495f2a0e",
"ceterms:ctid": "ce-889b0d6e-a1b6-4f81-94b5-b5e6495f2a0e",
"ceterms:name": "BOC 1003: Efficient Lighting Fundamentals",
"ceterms:description": "Participants will learn lighting fundamentals and principles of efficient lighting including: evaluation of lighting levels; fixture and control technologies; retrofit and redesign options; and required maintenance to reduce energy use associated with lighting while maintaining recommended lighting levels needed for productivity and safety.",
"ceterms:teaches": [
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:targetNode": "https://credentialengineregistry.org/resources/ce-daab05a9-82ca-42a7-ba62-0b23f8a3121e",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/courses/boc-1003/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "BOC 1003: Learning Objectives",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Optimize lighting levels and lighting energy use in a building by applying fundamental concepts of light, referencing industry standards and measuring light levels."
},
{
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"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Differentiate between types of lamps, ballasts, fixtures and controls and select appropriate lighting solutions for various spaces and applications."
},
{
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},
{
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},
{
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{
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"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Describe the methods of recycling various lighting equipment and estimate recycling costs."
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{
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"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Recall local utility programs for energy efficient lighting projects."
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Recall how loggers are used for energy profiling, estimating savings potential, and troubleshooting."
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{
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{
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]
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{
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{
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{
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{
"@type": "ceterms:FinancialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:framework": "http://www.theboc.info/faqconc/much-boc-training-cost/",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "Available Discounts",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "Tuition rebates, reimbursements and discounted fees are available for some courses. To find out the price for a specific course, please visit our find training page to locate a training near you. Pricing details are given on subsequent registration pages. You may also contact the BOC Help Desk for more information regarding cost of courses"
}
],
"ceterms:instructionalProgramType": [
{
"@type": "ceterms:CredentialAlignmentObject",
"ceterms:framework": "https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/cipcode/Default.aspx?y=55",
"ceterms:codedNotation": "15.0503",
"ceterms:frameworkName": "Classification of Instructional Programs",
"ceterms:targetNodeName": "Energy Management and Systems Technology/Technician",
"ceterms:targetNodeDescription": "A program that prepares individuals to apply basic engineering principles and technical skills in support of engineers and other professionals engaged in developing energy-efficient systems or monitoring energy use. Includes instruction in principles of energy conservation, instrumentation calibration, monitoring systems and test procedures, energy loss inspection procedures, energy conservation techniques, and report preparation."
}
]
}
Sorry, I corrected an error above. It's a ceterms:Certificate
and not a ceterms:LearningOpportunity
...i.e., it's a certificate with a set of learning opportunities and their associated competencies.
@siuc-nate I'm going to need you to show me how to access that Instructional Program Category page in the editor. I'm not seeing it in test when I create a new learning opportunity.
@siuc-nate IMO, the subject approach at the credential level for CIP codes has a lot of problems, even if "correct". Having more documentation on our preferred approach should minimize this approach.
@siuc-nate It seems like it is possible to use existing CTDL to publish a CIP code, such as via the example @erafal10 provided. If this is the preferred encoding then I think we need to have an internal discussion on how we can help our users produce it. Documentation is a good starting point and I could also imagine additional workflow supports for the bulk upload and Registry Assistant API that should help. I added this item to our tech list.
@stuartasutton It's just really complicated and we don't have enough guidance on how to publish CIP codes. I'll admit I've been thinking of learning opportunities as specific "courses" or "activities" and NOT as a "program", hence some of this long discussion is due to me just figuring out CTDL.
@jeff-grann
I'm going to need you to show me how to access that Instructional Program Category page in the editor. I'm not seeing it in test when I create a new learning opportunity.
That does explain part of the confusion - the CIP code field (and numerous other fields) aren't included on the initial create screen for learning opportunities or assessments. Credentials and Organizations have similar "create" screens that present a trimmed-down version of the editor. This was done some time ago to keep the editor's first screen from being overwhelming, and to promote the use of required and recommended properties. Once you click "Save", you'll be taken to the full interface - there you can enter CIP codes.
It would make sense(?) to add instructionalProgramType to the create screen if and when it is added to the policy as a recommended term.
IMO, the subject approach at the credential level for CIP codes has a lot of problems, even if "correct". Having more documentation on our preferred approach should minimize this approach.
I do agree that the better approach is to have the publisher make the extra effort of publishing the associated learning opportunities.
@siuc-nate It seems like it is possible to use existing CTDL to publish a CIP code, such as via the example @erafal10 provided.
The link provided was to the detail page for a learning opportunity - so yes, a CIP code can be published there.
If this is the preferred encoding then I think we need to have an internal discussion on how we can help our users produce it.
They just need to publish a Learning Opportunity separately from the Credential.
Documentation is a good starting point and I could also imagine additional workflow supports for the bulk upload and Registry Assistant API that should help.
The instructionalProgramType property is already accommodated by the bulk upload and API for assessments and learning opportunities. However, it is incorrectly (technically speaking) included as a "recommended" property in the bulk upload interface. No extra workflow would be necessary from a software standpoint.
@stuartasutton It's just really complicated and we don't have enough guidance on how to publish CIP codes.
At the learning opportunity level, it isn't any more complex than publishing an industry type or an occupation type on a credential would be - I would hope that it wouldn't be considered "really complicated" to publish a credential and its required learning opportunity, since that kind of thing is at the core of how CTDL and linked data works.
Our guidance does need improvement, but I've wondered on and off lately whether we've also been trying to make publishing too easy and simple. CTDL has depth to it, there's no getting around that. We tend to try to hide the complexity behind smoke and mirrors and assumptions and autofills and flattened CSVs in the name of removing "hurdles", but when it comes time for our thus minimally-exercised partners to run the race, that lack of practice turns a difficulty curve into a difficulty wall, which just hurts our partners in the end.
We need them to be able to "think in CTDL" in order for anything beyond the most barebones of publishing to make sense to their developers. It's unrealistic to expect any of our partners to really get value out of CTDL if we never give them the chance (or a reason) to get into the weeds with it. If we're that afraid of partners being intimidated by our own schema, then something about it needs to be corrected.
But, I digress.
I'll admit I've been thinking of learning opportunities as specific "courses" or "activities" and NOT as a "program", hence some of this long discussion is due to me just figuring out CTDL.
Learning Opportunity Profile is intended to cover specific courses and activities as well as programs, so you weren't incorrect in thinking of it that way.
@jeff-grann, @erafal10 & @jkitchensSIUC :
@siuc-nate accurately describes difficult terrain...how to entice 1st generation providers (early adopters) with simplistic records to move on to be 2nd generation providers with rich, useful records. The CER use cases define outcomes of 2nd generation providers that are drawn into the full range of the CTDL (required/required if available/recommended/optional). So, how do we frame these two generations so that the 1st generation provider understands from the get-go that required and required if available defines a passing grade ("C") record and that if they really want to play effectively, they have to get down in the weeds once they have gained their 1st generation sea legs.
I agree with @siuc-nate that we do them a disservice by painting too simplistic a picture and need to find a way to say: "Hey, here's a set of training wheels to get you going...to get your credential's visible. But, for your records to be really, really useful and considered really valuable by end users, you'll need to move on to expose even deeper layers of your credentials (e.g., individual learning opportunities and assessments and related competencies)."
Maybe some "power player" instruction on dealing with the "weeds" is in order with a clear set of data benefits in doing so. We are gearing up for "Learn and Build Summit"...not too far down the road, consider a "Power Player Summit"...that can give us some power provider exemplars.
I'd also note that the likelihood that we'll stimulate an app marketplace is somewhat dependent on how rich the data is...so they have a wide playing field in terms of product development. The range of potential apps is considerably narrowed if all they are looking at is "C" level records (note my comment above) that don't support much of anything beyond search and discovery.
@siuc-nate, just one clarification on what might otherwise be considered a minor point. Here above you state:
It also makes a reference to the ceterms:InstructionalProgramClassification class, which is one of several placeholder classes in CTDL meant to generically describe something without actually issuing any properties to it. In this case, the definition makes reference to CIP codes: "Class of concept schemes defining instructional program types such as the CIP codes in the U.S."
What ceterms:InstructionalProgramClassification
does is define a super class to which all instructional program code lists can declare themselves to be subclasses. In other words ceterms:InstructionalProgramClassification
defines a family to which all such code lists belong. So, down the road in a linked data world, the powers-that-be defining CIP codes might declare their list as being of the family ceterms:InstructionalProgramClassification
. That enables applications in an open linked data world to actually query: "Show me all code lists of the ceterms:InstructionalProgramClassification
family."..consider the outcome and make appropriate choices for their application.
Now, you might say, what code lists owners are going to make such an assertion? Only those that want to be found when someone wants to find the family in order to make choices. So the ceterms:InstructionalProgramClassification
class is far, far more than just a "placeholder".
It would also be very important to make sure that all of the members of our own team are well-versed in CTDL (or at least on how/where to look things up with it), as well as the need you describe to emphasize the usefulness of deeper records, so that we can all be on the same page when it comes to explaining it to our partners.
There are, unfortunately, a lot of points of potential confusion with CTDL. For instance, as I mentioned previously, a number of properties are already likely technically out of place, and/or duplicitous with the assessment/learning opportunity classes (like the duration and cost for a credential really being the duration and cost for a program related to the credential). I also think CTDL goes into too much detail in areas too far removed from credentials (and worries about too many edge cases), but all of this is probably material for a different thread.
Yes :-), this issue now has a number of forks.
Action to be taken as part of the December release:
This is added to the minimum data policy as "Recommended."
Add:
Subject: ceterms:instructionalProgramType Predicate: schema:domainIncludes Object: ceterms:Credential (and subclasses)
This has been updated in pending CTDL and noted in the history tracking.
We have had a few occasions where it would be useful to add
ceterms:instructionalProgramType
toceterms:Credential
and its subclasses.I had thought we already had a github issue for this, but I was unable to find one.