Add new RB2 HOPO system with HOPO chords, custom HOPO, forced strums & fallback GH2 marking

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This is NOT trivial!

First of all, I need more information.  I don't have access to RB2, so I
need the rules of HOPO chords explained to me in detail.  Don't assume I
know any aspect of this; explain every detail.

Screenshots or links to videos telling me to view a specific time would
also be helpful, but only if descriptions are given as to how these
patterns are supposed to be played on the guitar controller!

This will most likely require creation of a new HOPO system "RB2" -- just
in case it interferes with proper operation of the solid GH2 systems.

Original issue reported on code.google.com by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 19 Nov 2008 at 5:29

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As posted here by holystoneH:
http://www.fretsonfire.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25040&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&star
t=1635#p315400

"
ah i found again something great its not only on how hopo chords a determited 
but
also on how custom hopos are determinated. ill make you a picture:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5668/fofkl8.jpg

i think that the custom indicator is on line 6 of every difficultie. the first 5
lines are for the 5 notes and line 6 is telling rockband if that note is a 
custom
hopo if its only one note. if there are 2 notes its a custom hopo chord

i think you can clearly see it on the picture

F8 = custom hopo (expert)
F7 = custom hopo (hard)
F6 = custom hopo (medium)
F5 = custom hopo (easy)
"

Original comment by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 29 Nov 2008 at 5:21

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As posted here:
http://www.fretsonfire.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25040&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&star
t=1650#p315666

"
i have for you a second picture with a comparison between the midi and real 
rockband
ingame:

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8232/fof2ec9.jpg

and i think that on line 7 there is the information stored to tell rockband if 
a note
should not be a hopo

my theory is that on

expert
line 6 (F8) is to activate a note as custom hopo

expert
line 7 (F#8) is to force a hopo to be a normal note

im sure about line 6 that it is for the custom hopo but i have to recheck about 
line
7 but i think that on this position it makes sense
"

Original comment by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 29 Nov 2008 at 5:23

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As posted here by p_025:
http://www.fretsonfire.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25040&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&star
t=1650#p315926

"
Yeah, check out the crazy chords part of Steely Dan - Bodhisattva:
http://www.geocities.com/p_025/crazychords.JPG

This is what it's supposed to look like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngCqs5_S-fY
Check out some of the comments on that video too;

--i don't understand, how can you have a hammer-on/pull-off chord that is 
exactly the
same as the previous chord and it still be a HO/PO chord?

--how to explain this... say it's a blue orange chord twice in a row. you hit 
the BO
(lol bo) chord, then you release it, then hit it again. without strumming.

You have to TAP all that garbage. Holy bajeesus.
"

Original comment by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 30 Nov 2008 at 3:36

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I understand this issue now.  I will be implementing a RB2 custom HOPO system 
with
HOPO chords that behaves exactly like Rock Band 2 in a future version (probably 
the
next major release after 3.100.

No more info is needed (label removed)
Type is no longer WishList.
Priority bump from VeryLow to Medium.

Original comment by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 23 Jan 2009 at 5:17

• Added labels: Priority-Medium, Type-Enhancement
• Removed labels: MoreInfo, Priority-VeryLow, Type-WishList

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Issue 347 has been merged into this issue.

Original comment by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 31 Jan 2009 at 5:19

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This issue now will encompass the entire RB2 HOPO system as a new feature.  
This will
allow custom HOPOs and forced strum notes, as well as HOPO chords - with a 
fallback
on automatic GH2-style HOPO markings for unspecified notes.

Fretters will be able to specify notes and chords that should always be HOPOs, 
notes
that should never be HOPOs, and any unspecified notes will use the automatic GH2
marking system for HOPO note generation.

Once this RB2 system is implemented, it should become the de-facto standard for
FoFiX's HOPO system.  All other HOPO systems will become Handicaps as in issue 
509
(GH2 / GH2 Strict / RF-Mod / None), as they will allow playing the song in a
different manner than the fretter intended.  

Original comment by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 31 Jan 2009 at 5:26

• Changed title: Add new RB2 HOPO system with HOPO chords, custom HOPO, forced strums & fallback GH2 marking

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Once this issue is complete, a "Sloppy" version of the RB2 HOPO system should be
created for use as a Handicap in issue 509.

Original comment by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 31 Jan 2009 at 5:27

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While this is being worked on, it would be nice to have a "HOPO After Chord" 
setting
that works like RB/RB2 as well. Or it could have its own issue. I've brought 
this up
before so I won't waste any more space here.

Original comment by MofoMan2...@gmail.com on 3 Feb 2009 at 6:02

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(...what?)

Original comment by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 3 Feb 2009 at 2:15

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GH2 Sloppy and GH2 Strict will be phased out, in favor of more general "Sloppy" 
and
"Strict" handicaps (negative and positive, respectively) that will be 
applicable to
whatever HOPO system is in use (auto, RB2, GH2, RF-Mod).

The "Sloppy" handicap will provide GH2 Sloppy functionality (reverse tapping, no
strum required for tapping incorrectly) to any HOPO system.

The "Strict" handicap will provide GH2 Strict functionality (tapping incorrectly
results in a streak reset as well as requiring a re-strum) to any HOPO system.

Original comment by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 9 Feb 2009 at 12:38

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i don't know if this is relative to the conversation, but with the recent beta 
4 all
"normal" hopo functions have been rendered well "useless" i have GH2 for xb360 
and
have played the same song "thunder horse" and where there should be hopo notes 
there
are none. i don't mean to be a pain in the arse but its makes playing much more 
painful.

i miss the old way it was when hopo's worked.... please please bring it back
i have played with all hopo variations and have no been able to reproduce the 
same
hopo frequency for GH2 on the 360

Original comment by mods...@gmail.com on 10 Feb 2009 at 1:59

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HOPOs are working fine, I've tested Thunderhorse.  One of my favorite songs.

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New RB2 HOPO system related handicap that would be fun:

"Ignore Forced Strum Notes" or something to that effect - would only pay 
attention to
the RB2's forced HOPO note markers and completely ignore the forced strum note 
markers.  

This would essentially use the GH2 HOPO system to automatically mark all notes 
as
usual, and then go through and also mark RB2 forced HOPO notes to be tappable.  
I
believe this would result in some very fun frettings of RB2 songs.

However, it will make many of them much easier (Chop Suey, anyone?).  I suggest 
a
handicap factor of 0.85x or 0.90x to be fair.

Original comment by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 21 Feb 2009 at 9:22

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Actually, if you look at the PART_GUITAR data for Chop Suey! in a MIDI editor 
you'll
see it has no custom HO/PO markings anywhere. The reason you have to strum those
notes in RB2 is because, as I've said countless times before, Rock Band handles
HO/POs after chords differently. Simply put, if the note is in the chord it 
cannot be
HO/POed.

If you're talking about the PART_BASS data, sure, that would be much easier.

Original comment by MofoMan2...@gmail.com on 2 Mar 2009 at 4:35

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Ah, really?  I hadn't looked; that's good info.  So RB doesn't allow chord pull-
offs...?  Ever?

Then we can have this HOPO system handle the differnt logic when a RB style 
MIDI is 
detected.

Original comment by chris.paiano@gmail.com on 2 Mar 2009 at 2:33

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No, RB doesn't allow a HO/PO after a chord if the note after said chord is 
within the
chord. (e.g. a red-yellow chord followed closely by a yellow note. Both the 
chord and
the note must be strummed) However, if you have a red-yellow followed by a blue 
note,
the note CAN be hammered on.

The only exception to this (and I have seen these before) is when the note 
after the
chord is a forced HO/PO note. Just look at a YouTube video for guitar on In 
Bloom -
Nirvana, I can't provide a link right now because I'm at school and they block 
those
kinds of sites for some reason…

Original comment by MofoMan2...@gmail.com on 2 Mar 2009 at 3:59

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That sort of discussion should really be in its own issue. In the meantime, I 
would
love to see this committed, I wanna play Bodhisattva with all its crazy custom 
HO/POs.

Original comment by MofoMan2...@gmail.com on 3 Mar 2009 at 7:41

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Chris, i played thunderhorse on the alarian mod and the hopo's are there, but 
when i
play it with your version its not there, i'm not meaning to be aggressive about 
this,
but this is really one of those things that just put a chip on my shoulder, 
when i
have to double strum to hit the other notes would would normally be hopo, i 
wish i
could upload my version that i have so you could see what im talking about, i 
feel
like im often being thought of as a guy that just likes to nit pick.but im dead 
serious.

Original comment by mods...@gmail.com on 3 Mar 2009 at 2:30

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Issue 710 has been merged into this issue.

Original comment by evily...@gmail.com on 30 Apr 2009 at 5:52

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I have found some great info on the rock band 2 HOPO system on the RBN Guitar 
freting
tutorial found here
http://creators.rockband.com/spec/Guitar_and_Bass_Authoring

its says some stuff we would need to know about the hopo system

    * Hopos are automatically generated if notes are different color 16th notes or
faster, but sometimes a note/chord will sound in a guitar part that is not 
strummed,
or a slow bend, so for feel, we force Hopos on. This tool should be used 
sparingly,
and not to create whole songs where strumming is unnecessary.
    * Hopos, for both single notes and chords, can be turned on or off using the F
and F#, respectively, above each difficulty.
    * Hopo On/Off should be the same duration as the note/chord it is above

Original comment by matthews...@gmail.com on 16 Jan 2010 at 5:22