Amended/New Field/Misc tags - Nov23/June 24

[JMdictProject]

Eleven additional field tags have been added from issue #98, That issue is now closed and discussion of possible additional tags can take place here,

Several tags being discussed in issue #98 could possibly be (re) considered here: rakugo, season/kigo, signs, anthropology. A test/examination category for the names dictionary is possible, as is a misc tag for general dialect terms,

[parfait8566]

What about a tag for "police jargon"?

[parfait8566]

There are some entries that monolingual dictionaries describe as "俗" and I'm not sure "slang" always fits.

For example "掻っ攫う"

• 三省堂 says "〔俗〕「さらう」の乱暴な言い方。"
• 明鏡 says "「さらう」を強めていう語。"

There are entries that are "stronger"/more "crude" versions of other entries and a new tag/cross-reference could be helpful to highlight this. I've also seen monolingual dictionaries use "ぞんざい" when describing this sort of entries. I think "俗" is more general than "slang".

[Marcusjmdict]

There are some entries that monolingual dictionaries describe as "俗" and I'm not sure "slang" always fits.

For example "掻っ攫う"

• 三省堂 says "〔俗〕「さらう」の乱暴な言い方。"
• 明鏡 says "「さらう」を強めていう語。"

There are entries that are "stronger"/more "crude" versions of other entries and a new tag/cross-reference could be helpful to highlight this. I've also seen monolingual dictionaries use "ぞんざい" when describing this sort of entries. I think "俗" is more general than "slang".

We don't always tag terms described as 俗 as [sl], sometimes we use [col] instead, which I think covers "ぞんざい" adequately. An "emphatic" tag could possibly be useful but I'm not sure.

[parfait8566]

We don't always tag terms described as 俗 as [sl], sometimes we use [col] instead, which I think covers "ぞんざい" adequately.

I don't think I agree. "ぞんざい" has a note of crudeness/slight disrespect that I don't think [col] conveys. Also, monolingual dictionaries often do explicitly say "口語的" when referring to colloquial speech. In my opinion they have different nuances.

[stephenmk]

Is it okay to use the [noh] field tag for terms that are strictly kyogen (狂言)? If so, maybe we should update the tag's description to mention it as well.

[parfait8566]

A tag for "慣用読み" could be useful. They're mostly "百姓読み" (Shinmeikai uses 類推読み).

[JMdictProject]

Is it okay to use the [noh] field tag for terms that are strictly kyogen (狂言)? If so, maybe we should update the tag's description to mention it as well.

Several entries with [noh] tags refer to kyogen terms. I think it's OK to have them together. I'll try and remember to update the description to "noh, kyogen".

[JMdictProject]

A tag for "慣用読み" could be useful. They're mostly "百姓読み" (Shinmeikai uses 類推読み).

This touches on the discussion on the 本当/ほんと entry. Robin commented "A [ck] (colloquial kana) tag could be useful in cases like this.".

Probably such a reading tag would indeed be useful. What would be best? [ar] - accepted reading? [nr] - non-standard reading? [cr] - colloquial reading?

[parfait8566]

What would be best? [ar] - accepted reading? [nr] - non-standard reading? [cr] - colloquial reading?

I think all these tags would refer to different things. [colk]/colloquial kana would be for readings that are considered colloquial. To complete, [formk]/formal kana for readings that are considered formal would be useful as well. [kyk]/kanyou kana would be for 慣用 readings, readings that might have been considered unorthodox but are now common and are not necessarily colloquial or nonstandard anymore (and might actually be the preferred reading).

[robinjmdict]

I don't think we need a tag for 慣用読み. They're not considered irregular and many of them have completely supplanted the original reading. (No one reads 消耗 as しょうこう any more).

I'm in favour of a tag for colloquial readings. See とこ/ところ for another example of where it could be used.

To complete, [formk]/formal kana for readings that are considered formal would be useful as well.

I can't think of any examples of this.

[parfait8566]

They're not considered irregular and many of them have completely supplanted the original reading. (No one reads 消耗 as しょうこう any more).

I don't disagree with any of that. It's just useful metadata. 慣用読み are often readings that were originally unorthodox and later become more and more common. The monolingual dictionaries typically specify if it's 慣用読み because it's a different kind of reading. It doesn't mean it's nonstandard, rare or anything like, interesting nonetheless.

I can't think of any examples of this.

枝葉, for example, is typically read えだは. Sankoku tags the しよう reading as formal, other monolingual dictionaries use えだは in the definitions. There are plenty of cases like this, I think in fact more than [colk] candidates. As I mentioned in #114, these reading tags should also have the ability to add sense restrictions.

[JMdictProject]

I'm rather late in dealing with the additions/changes discussed in this issue. I see I also overlooked [phon] from #83. I hope to get to these sometime in April (this year.)

[JMdictProject]

Robin Scott: I think the description for [vet] should "veterinary medicine" I agree.

[stephenmk]

robinjmdict commented on Sep 9, 2023 By the way, is "deprecated" the right word here? I'm only familiar with it in software contexts.

I noticed that wiktionary uses "proscribed" in its entry for 在中.