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Customer reported a potential issue with GFS tropopause height #1055

Open HuiyaChuang-NOAA opened 2 months ago

HuiyaChuang-NOAA commented 2 months ago

In Aug 2024, an user reported GFS tropopause height was higher than the obs tropopause height derived by NCAR using radio sound data. See attached email.

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Mail - Re_ Significant bias in NOAA-derived tropopause height.pdf

HuiyaChuang-NOAA commented 2 months ago

@ChristopherHill-NOAA was assigned to work on this issue. Adding @WenMeng-NOAA and @GeorgeGayno-NOAA for awareness. Huiya corresponded with NCAR scientist and found the algorithm which NCAR used to derive tropopause height to be significantly different from the WMO tropopause height definition used by EMC. She sent the attached email reply to the customer who reported this issue. NOAA Mail - Re_ Significant bias in NOAA-derived tropopause height.pdf

Chris is preparing a slide to document his findings.

ChristopherHill-NOAA commented 1 month ago

Findings to date:

HuiyaChuang-NOAA commented 1 month ago

Chris will POC or website for ECMWF products and inform Huiya. Huiya will ask around on ECMWF data availability on wcoss2

HuiyaChuang-NOAA commented 1 month ago

Meeting notes from 10/7/2024 tag-up

  1. Chris will plot comparisons of GFS vs ECMWF tropopause height and share with Huiya and Wen
  2. If ECMW tropopause height does not have high anomaly, Huiya will reach out to ECMWF to inquire about their algorithm
ChristopherHill-NOAA commented 3 weeks ago

Bo Cui and Jiayi Peng provided insight of ECMWF datasets that are ported daily to WCOSS. A sample of ECMWF data files from 2024102712 was selected for review for potential inclusion of tropopause data.

Specific focus was made with GRIB file U1D1027120010280001, which contained deterministic model output for forecast hour 12 at 0.25º resolution from the ECMWF. A total of 110 variables were identified from the datafile through 'wgrib' and 'wgrib2' analysis. Of the 110 variables, none was found to explicitly contain tropopause information, and 6 variables were left 'undefined' by wgrib/wgrib2 analysis. The GRIB file was converted to a GEMPAK grid file for data analysis, and none of the 6 undefined variables was found to feature values resembling height or pressure data - let alone to resemble tropopause information.

The tropopause pressure variable is featured among many other variables in the complete deterministic dataset available directly from ECMWF. This complete dataset is stated to be available to ECMWF-member nations only, and otherwise available via license (commercial or research) to other entities. Specific POC information for potentially acquiring such data will need to be uncovered.

An October 2021 implementation document from the ECMWF website provides information pertaining to the introduction of their 'tropopause pressure' variable and its computation, which could potentially yield a method for reconstructing tropopause pressure values from freely available ECMWF model data - and thereby allow a direct comparison of GFS vs ECMWF tropopause data.