PvP from my sight so far.

[Phex1]

I've made pvp as many as i could the last week. Okay, only fights are vs fike and Ninja, but i think i can tell something in general.

1vs1 PvP is Dead. All fights i had ends with a stalemate, if not one side messed up badly (most times me) or some bad lag/bugs happens. It's end every time with one side run out of mana and the other run safe.

I have a Weapon 6,Kra5,Qor5,Riija6-Char with all important things on 99%. More Mage then fighter, so low Agi and Aim.

Here is a typical Fight vs Fike:

I Blind her, hold her, move towards her, hold her ect. Making some swings with my weapon, misses 2/3 of all hits. My Reflections still standing on the mapentrance, moving slow like hell toward our positions. Loosing all hope of hitting her with a weapon and use Splash of Acid, i make, if i am lucky, up to 100 Damage before i get blinded. All the time fike can use healwands, have no hp loss whatsoever, but i am near oom.

No, fike starts to attack we with magic. I'm just standing there, rotating my resistance rings and use healwands, too.

So, maybe i blind her and start hiting back some more, or she runs out of mana. But in the end, the one of us with zero mana run safe, and no one of us is near logging at any time of the fight.

If i want to shorten the fight, i cast dement on her. That makes her run safe earlier and we both safe some regs.

Fight vs Ninja is similiar. Only he do not use faren and have gaze of the basilisk up. I have more trouble with him, because he is more fighter und hit's harder and can use his bow, if oom. But most fights end the same way, one of us simply run safe. And Repeat.

I had like a dozen 1vs1 situations latley and if both sides have buffs up, the entire fight is pointless. And i tried many tactics, different weapons ect. The new heal wands make it near impossible to inflict enough damage to log someone in a 1vs1(but they are not the only problem), so the only pvp we have right now is:

a)Killing Newbs.

b)Zerging enemys

Yeah, i know i should have a couple of cool solutions right now (only thing i wish would be a respecc for my crappy stats) but i just want to explain how i see pvp right now. I leave the solutions to the smart guys ;)

P.S.

• Please make Reflections faster (And why sometimes they attack people and sometimes not? I see them stay in front of the pk, who is hitting me and doing nothing, and some times the attack every soldier entering the room)
• Give me a respecc!
• Maybe more Mana?

[M59Gar]

Thanks for the feedback, this is actually a standardization of a pre-existing situation. Heal wands and resist rings both already existed (and in heal wands' case were far more abusive). Now that we've removed the grind from obtaining them and standardized their effects, we can begin to see what PvP looks like when characters are more in line with each other.

For example, under the old system, you could have one guy with resist rings and 30 heal wands, and he would be pretty much unloggable. Meanwhile, he's fighting someone who has none of that, and that guy can be logged in the space of a few blinds. So it was only worse before. The crazy differences in individual power were a major reason why so many groups relied on zerging to accomplish anything.

I can't say for sure what we will do about it yet, but it's all part of the process. I'd like to see what happens if you try to use walls and/or purge weapons.

Also, we're definitely going to fix Reflection AI. It's always been pretty crappy.

[Daenks]

I concur, very excellent and usable feedback.

Thanks, @Phex1

[Phex1]

< I'd like to see what happens if you try to use walls and/or purge weapons.>

I fought most fights with a purge weapon and after loosing it to Ninja against it. It helps and right now the only option to log someone (holdweapon if you are sha), but you need luck (and i still have the problem to hit a high agi char with a weapon, best choice will be a purge mystic sword, but that's rare as hell. So, qormages are in a disadvantage here). Last fight ninja purged me at the very start of the fight from all buffs, switched to blind + bow and i had still 2-3 chances to go safe, but messed it up because the screen stayed black after blind runs out and i missed the vaultdoor several times ;) So, it is the best choice you can make but it is still very difficult to get someone down.

I also tried morph, but the higher damage and better hitrate is traded with lesser mana so the outcome is similiar, only i can get attacked by white alts now what is not a thing i will do again.

[ghost]

I think that the pvp system is moving in the right direction. The major issue that still remains is the incentive to pvp.

Easy access to heal wands are nice since fights are no longer dictated so often by rng and first blind. Theres much more strategy involved now..taking phex example fight against me, i save my mana for bursting him down when theres a good opportunity (hes used all his heal wands and or my lurgr scim removed his buffs). Its no longer just blind bow bow bow bow etc.

Ive had a lot of pvp where switching from melee to bow and back to melee won me the fight. Keeping tabs on opponents mana, their heal wand charges. The games much more dynamic and situational now. Some bad methods that were used before are no longer viable.

There are still a few auto game enders or useless spells that i think could use some improvement. An example of a game ender is purge. Kraanan is the one school in any toon build that is required. If you fight without it (purged or u just didnt buff) the fights over very quickly.

Example for 1v1 a shally with an invis ring purges you, fights over (di pots meh, or run inside n rebuff). Example for groul fight, purge follllwed up with qor cc, game ender.

[ghost]

Phex is right about a lot of 1v1 fights resulting in stalemates but i dont think that requires pvp mechanic changes to fix. Again, it comes down to incentive. In m59 pvp, often the only incentive to pvp is to kill the other player. The only thing that you lose when you run inside a zone to avoid death in most pvp is your ego. Everyone runs in if theyre not winning, so the pride factor here is useless.

Take the same example but change the incentive to defending a guildhall. If u flee the batltefield by running into a safezone, thats not a stalematr, you just lost your hall.

There seems to be a lot of discussion on creating complex formulas to the combat system like diminishing returns on cc and internal cool downs (ill play wow for that). I really dint think thats neccessary inot to mention that once you change the core part of m59, ur asking for tons of dev,qa,production cycles...lots of unpaid development hours and biased discussions. Plus, m59s pvp system is so unique and that is the cashcow, its the only reason people STILL play.

Getting rid of EQ lameness, mule pvp, creating halos etc were very specific small changes that had huge impacts on the gameplay and oncentive to pvp. Static one and two item drop penalties to ensure u are rewarded for sealing the deal on a pvp win added great incentive.

I hope that this thread starts discussions not on how to change pvp so there are less people running into safezones but instead, rewarding players for running people into safezones. Do this and these stalemates that phex discusses now become victories.

P.s. i aint saying that i have the answers nor is this eazy, im just pushing thr overall perspective of ghe directon of the game

[M59Gar]

I definitely agree about Purge + Invis Ring. That is probably the most broken combination in the game right now, but whether the solution is a DI ring, or invis rings having a karma requirement, or something else remains to be seen.