Add sounds to MapTool - Githubissues

Merudo commented 5 years ago

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe. Sounds and music are often requested for MapTool.

I think audio help wonderfully with ambiance, and would be an amazing feature to have.

Describe the solution you'd like I suggest we expend the build-in sounds for MapTool beyond the current dink.mp3 and clink.mp3. A small library of open source sounds (such as footsteps, doors, rain, etc) would be wonderful, and would not increase the size of the download substantially.

I propose a function, playSound, that can play the build-in sounds on every client on demand.

Eventually, we can augment the function so that it can play files at an arbitrary location. The GM could therefore send a zip files of sounds to players, and play those sounds while playing.

Additional context We might want to change our sound player to something better once the switch to FX occurs.

However as long as the playSound user function call is carefully defined, we can implement music and sounds now and later change how the sounds work.

Merudo commented 5 years ago

I added a branch that implements three sounds:

[playSound("Dink")]
[playSound("Clink")]
[playSound("Door")]

EDIT: Additionally, local sounds can be played by [playSound(fileName, filePath)], such as

[playSound("music.mp3", "C:/")]

JamzTheMan commented 5 years ago

It really wasn't hard to add audio to the asset library (did it once back in Java 1.7 days) and even had a panel to control audio. But I didn't know mt that well or FX 1 and had (I believe now) threading issues.

Otherwise, letting MT recognize .mp3, .ogg, .wav files isn't too much work. It will cache then and transfer them just like images.

The "issue" I had with the design is, I don't want to have to drag and drop each audio onto the map so they can be synced so they can be played.

I think we need to implement streaming (which FX can do) at least as an option, maybe it needs both?

Phergus commented 5 years ago

Some type of UI to manage sounds will be needed though it might be nice to actually drop them on a map and get an icon that could be used to play a sound. Not everyone wants to use macros and corresponding buttons to do everything.

There also needs to be GUI controls so that players can mute or stop sounds and a way to set volume.

rkathey commented 5 years ago

Would eventually like individual/connection sounds based on token location (sounds of lapping water, trap explosions, etc). This is a lower priority than the other use cases, however.

On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 8:45 AM Phergus notifications@github.com wrote:

Some type of UI to manage sounds will be needed though it might be nice to actually drop them on a map and get an icon that could be used to play a sound. Not everyone wants to use macros and corresponding buttons to do everything.

There also needs to be GUI controls so that players can mute or stop sounds and a way to set volume.

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dorpond commented 5 years ago

There was a great discussion and mockups that I once provided, but are no longer there due to technological changes throughout RPTools history, but this could help with ideas:

http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php?t=2417

If anyone can locate the mockups I made in some archive server of sorts, I’d love to see them again!

Azhrei commented 5 years ago

The images come from gallery.rptools.net and I think Craig archived that stuff somewhere; I didn't keep it.

Edit: Tried checking the Wayback Machine and they have the forum archived, but apparently not that specific thread for some reason. I also grabbed the first link in your post and searched for that in the gallery.rptools.net history and didn't find it either (the gallery might've had indexed turned off because of the size of the images).

JamzTheMan commented 5 years ago

Honestly, we don't need mockups, it's not a UI issue, it's more of a technology and maybe UX issue...

dorpond commented 5 years ago

Yeah, probably right. I think the mockup I made for the sound tool, was basically just like lighting, where you would see the 'sound circles' of each sound object on the map, and when you entered the 'circle', you would start to hear the sound faintly, and as your moved closer to the center of the source, the volume would get louder. Of course, stuff like that would be a better fit for 2.0, and simply calling sounds via macro would suffice.

dorpond commented 5 years ago

I put a lot of thought into sound in the past, and while I don't have my visuals, I did find my notes. I will post them in here, if for anything, could be an outline for those who wish to think about implementing sound or even making their own sound tool:

Scenes (Battle of Evermore) o Made up of Events. Each event can be turned on and off individually.  Music Event: Playlist X  Loop Event: Wind Blowing  Single Event: Clock Bell Rings  Random Event: Thunder Rolling.  Has a master on/off/pause switch that stops all events that may be playing.  Upload photo that represents the Scene.
Events o Made up of Sounds. Can create 1 of the 4 following events:

 Music Event (Battle Music) • Volume Control. • Playlist • Random Play – checkbox • Delay Start – checkbox: time value • Fade During Start / Stop – checkbox: fade in value, fade out value • Pause Between Songs – checkbox: time value • Fade Between Songs – checkbox: fade in value, fade out value

 Loop Event (Soft Wind Blowing) • Volume Control • Balance Control • File Chooser • Fade During Start / Stop – checkbox: fade in value, fade out value

 Single Event (Lightning) • Advanced Volume Control (min and max setting) • Advanced Balance Control (min and max setting) • File Chooser • Stop Another Event – checkbox: event chooser • Fade During Start / Stop – checkbox: fade in value, fade out value

 Random Event (Rolling Thunder) • Advanced Volume Control (min and max setting) • Advanced Balance Control (min and max setting) • File Chooser • Delay Start – checkbox: time value • Repeat Interval - checkbox: random time value between A & B • Fade During Start / Stop – checkbox: fade in value, fade out value • Stop Playing After – checkbox: time value (or) number of plays value.

Sounds o Upload, record your own, or get from FreeSounds.org (they have an API to search and download their content: https://freesound.org/help/tos_api/ )

dorpond commented 5 years ago

Ambient Sound Mixer.docx

Outline above didn't format well, so here is the Word file. Again, I was designing this to be it's own tool, so...

rkathey commented 5 years ago

Adding a few right-click options to the resource library might be helpful as a beta. Right now there is only 1 option available 'New Map'. I can see

New Map - for image assets
Get Asset Path - for reference in Macros across all files
Play - for sound files

There may be others

Merudo commented 5 years ago

Thank you for sharing your detailed thoughts on the subject, @dorpond !

I was thinking, maybe some sort of sound table (similar to the image table) would make sense?

rkathey commented 5 years ago

Perhaps a sound explorer like Jagged’s Drawing Explorer where you could set sound type (ambient, looping, locational, etc.) with the ability to add sounds via file drop from the resource library or the file system.

Players would see the current sound playing and have volume/mute control.

dorpond commented 5 years ago

Thank you for sharing your detailed thoughts on the subject, @dorpond ! I was thinking, maybe some sort of sound table (similar to the image table) would make sense?

You're welcome, @Merudo!

It all depends on how elaborate you want to go with it. In my examples above, that was for an independent, full blown, ambient sound mixer tool, but in Maptool we have a few ways to approach sound, and I think each are needed and could be released in waves, if designed correctly:

Wave 1: Trigger via Macros. Easiest to do now, but if used extensively, the user would soon find out that sound control will get unwieldly - for example, imagine 7 loops playing, randoms playing, a musical score playing, and you want to turn off the random blacksmith hammering, or people are complaining about volume, and the DM is scrambling around trying to just stop or adjust things. So, macro control is OK for like the single events, but beyond that, probably not a single source solution for sound.

Wave 2: List of assets, like @rkathey stated, in a draw explorer fashion or library. So let say this is called Sound Explorer; in there we could have a nice list of sounds in the campaign, and next to each sound, we have sound controls, like volume, pan, repeat, etc. In this sound library, we also a master controls, so that we can immediately pause, stop, or adjust the volume of all things currently playing. This makes managing sound easy for the DM.

Wave 3. A visual approach, which is where I would ultimately love to see Maptool go - this is what would make Maptool different than any other media players out there for gaming, because the sound is actually in the environment. We would have an actual sound layer, much like the FOW, VBL, and Drawing layers. We would drop sound files right on the map, and they would act much like real sound in relationship to where the tokens are - move a token closer to that asset, and the volume goes up, and the same would go with panning and what-not, but I could see the panning option being an option because some DM's may not want the players knowing exactly what direction that Dragon is coming from until a roll was made. But just like we can see light auras, the DM could hit a key stroke, or go to the sound tool, to visually see sound auras around the assets on the map, so the DM can easily assess where sound is and how far it radiates out from the source. Also keep in mind, that VBL would probably need to be considered in wave 3, because we wouldn't want sound to go through cave walls, right? :)

But you can see now that even if we are shooting for Wave 3 at the end of the day, Wave 1 and 2 are still needed - we still need a place to see the assets in a list, and to be able to quickly control those sounds if needed, or turn them all off and such, and of course we need to slip them into macros too :)

But that is how I would approach sound, if I had my perfect Maptool. Now keep in mind I have wanted sound in MT since 1.1, so it is exciting to know that someone else wants sound also, but keep in mind that MT 1.X has its limitations (so I've been told), so working the whole wave 3 experience into MT 2.X might be a great goal.

Please feel free to brainstorm with me and ask questions - I have thought long and hard about sound on a usage perspective.

rkathey commented 5 years ago

Wave 3. A visual approach, which is where I would ultimately love to see Maptool go - this is what would make Maptool different than any other media players out there for gaming, because the sound is actually in the environment. We would have an actual sound layer, much like the FOW, VBL, and Drawing layers. We would drop sound files right on the map, and they would act much like real sound in relationship to where the tokens are - move a token closer to that asset, and the volume goes up, and the same would go with panning and what-not, but I could see the panning option being an option because some DM's may not want the players knowing exactly what direction that Dragon is coming from until a roll was made. But just like we can see light auras, the DM could hit a key stroke, or go to the sound tool, to visually see sound auras around the assets on the map, so the DM can easily assess where sound is and how far it radiates out from the source. Also keep in mind, that VBL would probably need to be considered in wave 3, because we wouldn't want sound to go through cave walls, right? :)

By some miracle, @dorpond and I see eye-to-eye on this one. I was envisioning (enhearing?) much the same functionality for wave 3.

dorpond commented 5 years ago

@rkathey That is because Elves don't hear twice as well as humans. Oh wait... No!!!!

LOL. No worries, not going there! I don't want racial and perceptions skills to be any part of this! We are shooting for general ambiance, not "what would MY character hear?", although, I could see some Dorpond-like individual eventually dreaming about doing such a thing, so maybe we should at least consider that far out request, when the code is being written?

You know someone will be asking for it in like MT 2.9... LOL

JamzTheMan commented 5 years ago

Well, technically to make #3 work it has to be based from some owned token(s) from the client. Don't ask me what it should sound like if they have 5 tokens all over the place.

And you will need to define distance a token can "hear" somewhere (could be a global default) but might as well define that on the token like sight. As Deafness will be a thing now as well.

But ya, I agree with the approach, #1 first.

But still doesn't answer the question. Do you expect to have the audio packed in the campaign file?

rkathey commented 5 years ago

But still doesn't answer the question. Do you expect to have the audio packed in the campaign file?

My first thought is 'yes' but I would need to know the what the downsides are to having it in the campaign file.

Well, technically to make #3 work it has to be based from some owned token(s) from the client. Don't ask me what it should sound like if they have 5 tokens all over the place.

I would see it much like sight where you hear what the loudest would hear until you select a token then you hear what it hears.

Azhrei commented 5 years ago

It’s mostly a size issue (storing audio in a campaign). The DTS-MA audio for a single track of Avatar is 5GB. That’s about 40MB/minute. Of course, that’s high fidelity and you probably don’t need that for an RPG game. 🙂

I agree on audio working like sight. And ditto for things like an SBL (sound blocking layer) probably copied from the VBL layer, but able to be edited separately, maybe with a percentage number that specified how much the volume of the audio is reduced...

rkathey commented 5 years ago

If the size is the issue then we may want to access via URL. That URL could be a server-based file if you don't use a web resource.

Better, you export the campaign repository file web site as you do now to improve performance for images.

JamzTheMan commented 5 years ago

Have any of you guys used audio in there day to day games? In my experience, what I wanted or thought I needed and how I use it end up being a little different.

Static sounds are ok, door creaks, battle sounds (lots of NPC voice packs avail from games like Baldurs gate and NWN work great) and would store just fine.

Music not as much. I have a about 600mb of audio mp3 of music grouped by themes (dramatic, dungeon, city, action, combat, etc) and I would want/need all of that for ambient background music. I'm not storing that in my campaign file. And even at those sizes and collections, it's pretty repetitive and I should double to triple some of those groups.

Then there are the sounds on the spot that we may want. Maybe a dinosaur roar or a rock slide. But I suppose I could drag those to the campaign like an image, but IMO those are one shot and should be streamed...

rkathey commented 5 years ago

I would likely use the one-shot noises much more often than music but I had a GM who wanted background music playing for ambiance. Most of the use cases I've stated are for the one-shot roars and creaks.

dorpond commented 5 years ago

Well, technically to make #3 work it has to be based from some owned token(s) from the client. Don't ask me what it should sound like if they have 5 tokens all over the place. And you will need to define distance a token can "hear" somewhere (could be a global default) but might as well define that on the token like sight. As Deafness will be a thing now as well. But ya, I agree with the approach, #1 first. But still doesn't answer the question. Do you expect to have the audio packed in the campaign file?

All good points, @JamzTheMan

Good point about what it would sound like with 5 tokens. How about this for an idea? The DM would specify what the sound is, when it is dropped to the map. Music (battle music) events would have no involvement with token location, but looping, random, and single events would (dragon snoring, near the waterfall). Now, when selecting one or more tokens, it would simply continue to play the last current token playing (Token 1). You obviously own all 3 tokens (thinking player here), so music is playing, you grab your three and move them - sounds didn't change at all. But now you click on Token 2 - I would simply have the Looping, Random, and Single event gradually adjusting to those volumes. The gradual change would make it feel more organic and not suddenly go from soft to loud with everything, sending an ice pick into your forehead..
As far as hearing, spells, and other things to damper sound - I personally think this takes the tool and makes it much more complicated and video-gamish than needed. I think the idea here is that the PLAYER feels a little more immersed into the environment, not so much the character we are playing. I mean, does the PLAYER really need to not hear the waterfall and dragon snoring, because their token is in a magical field? Simply telling them they are deaf is good enough, right? It just seems like it will add so much more complexity, for the return we get from it. Or maybe just a token switch of 'No Sound', so all ambience just stops for that token? shrug
Packaged into the campaign? I think they would have to be. There is nothing worse than opening a 5 year old file and nothing loads correctly because those assets are no longer found in their original location, and now I have to scramble finding them and put them where they belong for everything to work as-it-once-did. I see that all the time with video editing software and even some older sound mixing apps, and it frustrates me to no end. Don't you think? I see where the concern is though - sound is heavy. I wonder if we should approach music playlists differently? Music playlists would be in the library, as will their files. They are not part of the Wave 3 at all - we don't drop them onto the map, and depending on the mood of the GM, they may want to play different playlists throughout the session, so being in the library makes more sense. In that case, those could all be in the library and executed there somehow - that music wouldn't be saved with the campaign, but ambient sounds would be saved in the campaign. It seems that ambient files are smaller files since they are loops, randoms and singles, whereas during a 4 hour battle campaign, you could easily fly through 48 Music tracks. 48 tracks @ 5Mb each is 240Mb. Yikes! Plus, with music files - those tend to be copywritten, and I don't know if the "worldly laws to be", would be fond of MT suddenly becoming a music sharing app. (oh, look there! I can open up this asset cache folder and wow! Free music!).

But we have to also think of how something like this would work, with Face to Face sessions (raises hand), and remote sessions. Obviously with face to face, all the music would play on the DM's computer only, but with remote play, music would have to be streamed and ambient would be passed along with the campaign file. A simple switch can determine that behavior I suppose...

Great stuff brought to the table with this, guys!

dorpond commented 5 years ago

Have any of you guys used audio in there day to day games? In my experience, what I wanted or thought I needed and how I use it end up being a little different.

Yeah, every session. I used to LOVE RPGSoundMixer, but they stopped supporting it at after Windows XP. sad face

So now, I struggle painfully, looking to do the same thing - play random sounds to my parameters, play looping files, and easily execute singles - in a tool that is easily manageable so that it doesn't take away from my narrative. I currently use a recording studio software for that atm, because I am also a musician, but it is painful, to be honest.

As far as music, I agree, there are GB's in my library, and because I play F2F, I just play those playlists, or I go to Youtube, and play some of those playlists up there.

So yeah, I don't even think we would need music in MT at all. I would be 100% satisfied if we only did Randoms, Loops, and Singles. I don't mind spending time to set all that up in the campaign ahead of time, if they just work without me thinking much during the session. Like all things MT :)

dorpond commented 5 years ago

This all seems so much easier for F2F games, but once remote play comes into the picture, I sense frustrations due to bandwidth limitations. around here, most services have 2 meg upload speeds - I couldn't imagine having to stream music to all the remote players. All the more reason to abandon Music from this equation, and sticking to Ambience, so that they get packaged and sent with the campaign file. Think?

rkathey commented 5 years ago

The DM who wanted background music in our remote sessions would simply play it in the room he was gaming from. His mic picked it up and we all heard it.

We should probably have a way to stream music from the server to clients to keep from bloating the Campaign file. I don't see the music as intrinsic to the campaign. Door squeaks and dragon roars are.

Update: After reading the above content I would agree with dropping music.

dorpond commented 5 years ago

Reference: Looking through my sound files (ogg), I average (and rounded up) the following files sizes (each):

Monster Attack Sounds: 20k Spells: 20k Environment Loops (mixed together in 1 file, like wind, birds, trees blowing): 500k Single Environment Loops (Rain): 200k Misc Singles (door open): 20k

Which brings up the next question: what files formats can we support? Wav, MP3, and Ogg?

Syndaryl commented 5 years ago

I hate to drift through as a party pooper, but some people really really hate having sfx shoved at them in a tabletop game, like myself. It's as much an accessibility issue as well as a matter of taste, and also peace in a household (saving other members from the noises) (and bandwidth costs).

So it has to be configurable and disableable from the reciever side as well as the sender, and if the reciever has it disabled, don't send the files at all and save everyone the bandwidth.

Azhrei commented 5 years ago

Good point! I can see multiple situations where the sound could be unwanted.

Since MT doesn't try to download any assets that the client doesn't actually use, turning them off in the client should be programmed so that MT never accesses them, thus preventing the download as well. (That's why you see the message about loading assets when changing maps — they haven't been downloaded until their first use.) This could be stored in the Preferences so that it's per-client.

In addition, I can see situations where someone might have the sound turned on but want quick access to mute it. Maybe we should put a button on the main window for it? We can't rely on them turning off sound via their operating system, since they may want/need the sound coming from other applications...

rkathey commented 5 years ago

In addition, I can see situations where someone might have the sound turned on but want quick access to mute it. Maybe we should put a button on the main window for it? We can't rely on them turning off sound via their operating system, since they may want/need the sound coming from other applications...

We likely have space around the frame for a volume slider or pop-up slider down in the lower right corner with all the other little widgets.

JamzTheMan commented 5 years ago

And now we see why sound isn't implemented yet lol.

There should be a separate GitHub project for this with a collection of issues to support it.

FYI I really do dislike the discounting of features solely on "I don't use it in my campaign." Some people may 100% only want ambient sounds/music and zero "door creaks", others may want both, and some may just want a ding here and there. And of course we would need the ability to give clients the choice to opt in/out and set there own master volume.

Me, personally, given the choice, I would take music/ambient streams over door creaks. I can easily say "you hear a large deep rumble coming from the other side of the door" but a proper playlist can really set the mood. Especially in more RP heavy games like WoD.

rkathey commented 5 years ago

Me, personally, given the choice, I would take music/ambient streams over door creaks. I can easily say "you hear a large deep rumble coming from the other side of the door" but a proper playlist can really set the mood. Especially in more RP heavy games like WoD.

In this case, would the server house the music files and stream them to the clients who allow the music or would it be part of the campaign file?

Phergus commented 5 years ago

I'm with Syndaryl. The most important feature is being able to disable it easily on the player client.

I've used sounds in F2F games 2 times. Once for a ship's bell marking the watches as a countdown to a pending event. Another time was a sound of metal hitting stone that got louder as they made their way through a labyrinth towards the source. I could see basic foley effects being handy in F2F games.

If I was playing over the net and needed to be able to understand what the GM or other players were saying over their crappy $10 microphones the last thing I would want is more noise added to the sound.

JamzTheMan commented 5 years ago

Music/ambient sounds should be streamed. Its not as important for those to be timed with a other events and a delay in start is acceptable. Clips should be in the campaign as you would want them to start immediately.

YMMV given bandwidth, mics, speakers, etc. I suspect given that it would be cool and nice, most people live without it.

It's always been lower on my priority for that reason, I only ever see a few vocal people asking for it and usually just as many that say they wouldn't need it.

Merudo commented 5 years ago

YMMV given bandwidth, mics, speakers, etc. I suspect given that it would be cool and nice, most people live without it.

It's always been lower on my priority for that reason, I only ever see a few vocal people asking for it and usually just as many that say they wouldn't need it.

As a Call of Cthulhu Keeper, not being able to play the music I want during play is the #1 thing I miss most while using Maptool.

I wonder if the "few vocal people" are folks who are into horror RPGs.

I'm with Syndaryl. The most important feature is being able to disable it easily on the player client.

Already possible - a player can just turn Maptool's sound all the way down in the Windows volume mixer.

This all seems so much easier for F2F games, but once remote play comes into the picture, I sense frustrations due to bandwidth limitations. around here, most services have 2 meg upload speeds - I couldn't imagine having to stream music to all the remote players. All the more reason to abandon Music from this equation, and sticking to Ambience, so that they get packaged and sent with the campaign file. Think?

I strongly disagree with this.

I think the solution to streaming issues is to add a Audio Resources Directory support for Maptool. Basically, you'd have a directory (specified through the Maptool configuration interface) where each player you could drop off musics and sounds.

When the GM plays a sounds, each client would first look into their resource directory to see if the resource can be locally found. If found, the file is loaded from the local directory instead of streamed. This would negate the streaming issues mentioned.

dorpond commented 5 years ago

All great stuff!

All I know is that for F2F, I would use it extensively.

Ever since RPGSM went away, I have been struggling for years to find a sound tool for gaming and they all suck, or they are all subscription, or they don’t allow me to use my own sounds.

I would even pay a couple hundred bucks for a sound tool that allows me to make random events, looping events, and single events; with my own sound files, and I can save the file locally. Throw in a sound pack purchase option, and I would buy them too.

Being a musician, I just know how much the right sound ambiance can make a scene. Take sound away from your favorite action movie or replace it with Mr, Roger Neighborhood, and you will quickly know how much sound makes or breaks a scene. Lol.

Azhrei commented 5 years ago

[...] All the more reason to abandon Music from this equation, and sticking to Ambience, so that they get packaged and sent with the campaign file. Think?

I strongly disagree with this.

I think the solution to streaming issues is to add a "audio resources" directory support for Maptool. [...]

But that doesn't solve the bandwidth problem. If I'm hosting on a hotel wifi link (which happens somewhat often), I don't want to have to stream sound files to 4-5 players while using that same connection for sharing image assets, dragging tokens, and voip.

To me, sound assets are very similar to image assets — I'll use them once in awhile and I don't want to have to send them to players every time I use them, so streaming is useful for short clips (less than a few seconds) but everything else should be pre-shared or streamed from another source. If sound assets can go into a repository just like image assets, then the problem is solved from my pov. If other GMs want the option of streaming music, they can, but I would never use that option.

dorpond commented 5 years ago

I wonder if the "few vocal people" are folks who are into horror RPGs.

D&D for me, but many of my scenes are in fact suspenseful, and I do tend to have darker elements. But I certainly use and appreciate the epic musical moments, similar to that of when a WOW character enters Stormwind City for the first time. :)

Syndaryl commented 5 years ago

FYI I really do dislike the discounting of features solely on "I don't use it in my campaign."

Never said that. Just that if I'm inflicted with a GM who does, please let me turn them off.

Already possible - a player can just turn Maptool's sound all the way down in the Windows volume mixer.

They're actually disableable already in the maptool config. You should never have to rely on your OS's audio mixer to control your programs sound - unless the purpose of your program is to blare unmutable advertising or something.

Also, the included maptools noises are already downloaded, once. This is entirely different from trying to pipe random music at me - I can unplug my speakers, but you'll still suck up my bandwidth. Unlimited broadband may be a thing where you are, but it's definitely not where I am. We only have so much to go around for multiple people, and we pay for overages. I have to schedule my big software updates for overnights or I face some very angry people who want to know why they can barely surf the web.

Merudo commented 5 years ago

[...] All the more reason to abandon Music from this equation, and sticking to Ambience, so that they get packaged and sent with the campaign file. Think?

I strongly disagree with this. I think the solution to streaming issues is to add a "audio resources" directory support for Maptool. [...]

But that doesn't solve the bandwidth problem. If I'm hosting on a hotel wifi link (which happens somewhat often), I don't want to have to stream sound files to 4-5 players while using that same connection for sharing image assets, dragging tokens, and voip.

My suggestion for an Audio Resources Directory would solve exactly this kind of problems.

With my proposal implemented, you upload the sound files to a sharing server a few days before your game (ideally when you have a good connection). Players download the files before the session. Once downloaded, they put the audio resource files in their respective Audio Resources Directory.

Now that everyone have the sounds locally, there is zero audio streaming done during gameplay - all the transfer was done beforehand - so low download/upload speeds are no longer an issue.

Syndaryl commented 5 years ago

Now that everyone have the sounds locally, there is zero audio streaming done during gameplay - all the transfer was done beforehand - so low download/upload speeds are no longer an issue.

That certainly addresses my issue IF the files aren't served to me like regular assets, when its discovered I don't have them.

That said I immediately see a problem with some of the less technical players in our group.

Syndaryl commented 5 years ago

For a little clarity on my use cases for "oh dear god let me turn it off"

1) I have brain damage, and I have a lot of trouble focusing on one sound when there's background noise. Kind of like having a cheap hearing aid. 2) I live with other people who don't need to hear my toys at 10PM, but being able to keep some audio alerts on for other programs is very useful to me and they have agreed to tolerate it. The "dink dink dink" for incoming MT messages, OTOH, caused a lot of friction until I found where to turn it off. ** Related, I can't wear headphones for an extended period of time, and I can't wear earbuds at all. My skin becomes inflamed from the pressure, it stinks. 3) We've got crap for internet.

Any one of those is a good use case, IMO. YMMV of course, but I hope not.

Phergus commented 5 years ago

I'm with Syndaryl. The most important feature is being able to disable it easily on the player client.

Already possible - a player can just turn Maptool's sound all the way down in the Windows volume mixer.

Not good enough. There needs to be a method in MapTool itself (probably a menu item) that allows a player to disable/mute audio easily while playing and a way to stop any audio files from being sent to that player client which could be a preference setting. Granularity for selectively muting/disabling soundtrack, ambient and SFX would be best.

Merudo commented 5 years ago

I just found out that Mote, the ill-fated closed source fork of Maptool, actually supported sound.

In fact, a youtube demo of its sound features is available here.

It appears it can play both local files and stream files from servers.

Honestly their implementation looks a lot like my Audio Resources Directory idea.

JamzTheMan commented 5 years ago

Yep. Just to be clear, I propose streaming and assets.

FYI you probably would hate me if you had to download my "Resource Library". Good luck getting that done before game if you have a sub par connection. You'd probably go "seriously? You just ate up 22gb on my c drive for audio alone that I may never need?"

"Hey, I don't know if you are going to go left or right or ...."

dorpond commented 5 years ago

@Merudo That would certainly suffice, however, I still would want to randomize sounds, and I'm not sure how we could define that quite yet in this list method.

Most of my files are individual sounds, like a bird - as in a few chirps; or maybe 3 hits with a blacksmith hammer - I would want that blacksmith hammer or bird to chirp randomly between 20-50 seconds.

But I am certainly satisfied with something like that.

@JamzTheMan That's extreme - do you think someone would upload their whole 22GB repository for a session that may only use 50 files? Wouldn't you just upload the files you are using that session or campaign, to the repository? I certainly wouldn't upload all my files.

Maptool: Export -> Sound Repository File

Azhrei commented 5 years ago

Should we have two issues? One for music/large files and one for ambient noises/short clips/small files?

JamzTheMan commented 5 years ago

We also need one for functions vs UI interface. Eventually event based but events is it's own can of worms.

JamzTheMan commented 5 years ago

Maybe a separate one for preference settings or UI is broken into 2, one for GM/Player and another for client, eg dont play and volume options.

Merudo commented 5 years ago

I gave it more thoughts and I came up with this list of milestones for implementing audio in Maptool.

Milestone 1: Add App Preferences option to choose location of Audio Resources Directory, add Volume control for sounds
Milestone 2: Add playSound() and stopSound() functions working with files in the Audio Resources Directory only
Milestone 3: Add playStream() and stopStream() functions to play sounds from an online source
Milestone 4: Add option so that playSound() can stream sounds from host to clients, together with an option to disable this in App Preferences
Milestone 5: Add option to bundle sounds in a Maptool campaign, including giving them asset ids. Add option to include sounds in the entries of a table.
Milestone 6: Add option to drop sounds on a map, and deal with them without any macros
Milestone 7: General improvement of the UI until it looks sufficiently polished

How does this road map looks like?

RPTools / maptool

Add sounds to MapTool #615