Create Brand New Hedge Graphics...

[datahead8888]

In task #256, we removed the SMB3 style hedge for now. On @SonOfBowser's suggestion, we're probably going to make it use a different image that we already have in its place for now.

This task is to create a brand new hedge image to replace the old one directly. It will need to not be recognizable as a Mario style hedge.

The SMB3 style hedge SVG is at https://github.com/Secretchronicles/TSC/blob/devel/drafts/game/frostbringer/level/ground/green_2/hedges/small_2.svg

cc @sydneyjd, @DarkAceZ

[sydneyjd]

I don't consider it a major mario reference IMO. Here is a pic of the hedge plain.

[ghost]

@datahead8888 Depends on the expression and style, I think.

[datahead8888]

***I meant background objects for this question, though I think that was implied based on the previous discussion.

[datahead8888]

Quintus said that his opinion above means he does not think we should have eyes on the hill.

[Quintus]

So it appears there are quite some different points of views on this. Let me first clarify to you @sydneyjd that what we’re discussing here is not meant to disvalue your work. You are doing great, and I hope you will continue to support the game. The eye topic is problematic due to the Mario resemblances; not from a copyright site probably, but more from how far we want to depart. It has nothing to do with your hard work on the graphic, which I appreciate and I am sure everyone else involved here appreciates as well. Don’t take this discussion as a matter to bring you down in some way.

@Bugsbane is correct that we need to find a consistant style for the project, and I agree with him that eyes should not be used as it is too much of a Mario reference. The style is part of our identity as a project and is what we are recognised with, and to make a good game it is very important to stick to the chosen style. A graphic may be great on itself, but it will look weirdly out of place if it doesn’t fit the surrounding style. Too much derivations from the chosen style will make the entire game look inconsistent and unplanned, even though all the graphics are each of high quality.

I suggest that we have a bit of discussion with more people before we make a decision here. @brianvanderburg2 and @Luiji, could you post your opinion with regard to the amount of eyes we should allow in the game? @sauer2, as a level designer, do you think this asset looks out of place too much with all the other eye assets removed or modified accordingly?

I have outlined my position above again, and please note that I’m not arguing on the quality of the graphic. It’s good. That’s not what we are discussing about. Thus, as a compromise, we could leave the graphic as-is, but do not use it in the official levels, so it is available for anyone in the level editor. If we can’t find a solution on which everyone can agree, we’re going to vote on the subject, but for now we should try to really find something everyone is content with.

Vale, Quintus

[Luiji]

@Quintus calls for the opinions of all, I shall provide my component.

The eyes are, to an extent, a component of the Super Mario World art style. I would recommend avoiding anthromorphising too many inanimate objects for the sake of providing our own, unique art style.

[brianvanderburg2]

@Quintus I agree that eyes (and maybe for that matter noses and mouths) should not be used to often for the regular, inanimate objects. They do reflect SMW quite a bit.

I think the same could possible be said with other graphics and concepts:

• The spinning block resembles SMW even with the new graphics, just looks like a spinning crate instead. What if instead of spinning it shrinks and disappears for a brief time then reappears, or becomes semi-transparent then fully opaque again.
• The fireball attach resembles SMW and most of other Mario games. I don't know if any of them had an ice ball attack. Perhaps the fireball could be replaced with a bouncing mini-bomb that does a small explosion on impact with the enemy.
• Vines (perhaps replace with ladders or stairs of some sort)
• Probably others

[Quintus]

Okay, thank you two. So you aren’t against any eyes in the game, but they should be restricted to very few objects? Sounds acceptable to me. The vast majority of objects shouldn’t have any eyes then.

As it stands currently, the topic is on the discussion schedule for our General Discussion on 21st. Which gives me opportunity to mention to @Bugsbane that there is going to be a larger IRC meeting soon, please see this forum post. Quite a lot of people have already indicated that they’re going to join. Followup announcement with entire discussion schedule is nearly, I just wait for approval by @Luiji.

I have hopes that we can bring this topic to conclusion without voting by restricting eyes to a limited number of objects. Once this more general question is resolved, we should decide how to proceed with sydney’s hedge graphic.

Valete, Quintus

[datahead8888]

This seems like a reasonable compromise. We would want to decide what other objects or type of objects can have eyes besides the hedges.

Also, I seem to remember seeing some other hills or other objects with eyes. Does anyone remember seeing them? If so, we would want to evaluate them and decide if they pose a problem against our eye style guidelines.

[Quintus]

Also, I seem to remember seeing some other hills or other objects with eyes. Does anyone remember seeing them?

Several background graphics have them, and I have to say that that’s a place where I definitely don’t want them:

• https://github.com/Secretchronicles/TSC/blob/v2.0.0-beta7/tsc/data/pixmaps/game/background/blue_waterhills_1.png
• https://github.com/Secretchronicles/TSC/blob/v2.0.0-beta7/tsc/data/pixmaps/game/background/green_hills_2.png
• https://github.com/Secretchronicles/TSC/blob/v2.0.0-beta7/tsc/data/pixmaps/game/background/green_junglehills.png

There are possibly more objects with eyes, I just don’t remember them right now.

Vale, Quintus

[datahead8888]

Yes, the second image was the one I was remembering -- it was very heavy eye usage in a level. We should probably either open a new ticket on this or reopen the old hills with eyes ticket. Also, would it be useful if maybe we had a "DeMarioization" label or "Legal" label, to make it easy to find all tickets involving Marioisms?

[Quintus]

Also, would it be useful if maybe we had a "DeMarioization" label or "Legal" label, to make it easy to find all tickets involving Marioisms?

Done.

[Quintus]

It was decided by the Team’s General Discussion that the hedge remains in-game for now. The issue is not finally decided on, so I leave it open, but remove it from the 2.0.0 milestone.

Valete, Quintus

[datahead8888]

No one needs to be assigned to this task for now, until we have a general team meeting to make a decision on this.

[Bugsbane]

My take on it with "mouths instead of eyes" as I've talked about before to lose to SMB look, while keeping the friendly fun, "everything is alive" feel.

http://duruz.com/smiley-hedges.svg

"I give full permission for the secret Chronicles project, as found at http://GitHub.com/Secretchronicles to use any artwork (png's/jpg's/sketches/.svg files) created by me (including the SVG file linked to above), that I post on this projects sub pages (issues, files area etc.), past, present and future until further notice, under a creative commons CC-BY 4.0 license."

Please download the file, as it's a temporary link.

[Quintus]

Okay, I have downloaded it and stored it permanently on alexandria: http://team.secretchronicles.de/~quintus/store/smiley-hedges.svg

Thank you @Bugsbane! It’d be nice if you also answered @ardvark71’s questions over on the forum also: http://forum.secretchronicles.de/topics/256

I like your mouthed hill, but as this issue was a very heated discussion I’d like to see what the other ones participating in it say.

Valete, Quintus

[ghost]

Hi all..

http://duruz.com/smiley-hedges.svg <--- I love it, too! You have my vote with this one! :-)

Regards...

[Bugsbane]

I like your mouthed hill, but as this issue was a very heated discussion I’d like to see what the other ones participating in it say.

I totally understand. If you with something else, that's fine. I just had a few minutes to spare - just enough to mock that up, but not enough so read pages of debate, so I thought I'd just post it, and "let the chips fall where they may" to use an English idiom (it means to accept whatever happens afterwards).

I posted a reply in the forum too, although I'm unlikely to see the replies until I next login unless prompted. I check in here more often.

[datahead8888]

I'm honestly a little hesitant to put mouths on hills, but I might be able to be convinced to change my mind. Mouths work really well on the blocks, but I'm not sure on hills. I'd like to discuss it with Sydney later when there's some time.

[Bugsbane]

Sure. I'd say, all we can do is try it, and see if we like how it looks (before committing). Until then, we're just imagining if it would work or not.

[datahead8888]

Good point :)

[Bugsbane]

Ok, so here's a screenshot for people to look and and decide on:

Something to consider is that if Mario had used the eyes on blocks in just one or two places, it would have looked strange and unexpected. Because they consistently used them as a theme though, it feels part of a cohesive world. It's the same situation here.

Anyway, if people want to roll with it, here's the 128x128px version (same resolution as the current hedge pixmap):

[datahead8888]

This originally caused a lot of disagreement when a hedge graphic was submitted a while back. I think the only way to go is either to debate and/or vote in the next IRC meeting or to hold a one-off vote by email / Github.

[Quintus]

This originally caused a lot of disagreement when a hedge graphic was submitted a while back. I think the only way to go is either to debate and/or vote in the next IRC meeting or to hold a one-off vote by email / Github.

Not necessaryly. I’m fine with Bugsbane’s suggestion, so it is upon @sydneyjd to tell us how he thinks about Bugsbane’s replacement suggestion (which will then cause his submission to get get in)?

Vale, Quintus

[sydneyjd]

I have mixed feelings over this one. But i am OK with it, i don't think they look very mario'y, and they do fit with our game's "glad" style. They do seem kinda creepy though, no eyeballs. :stuck_out_tongue: Its fine. ;)

[datahead8888]

Proceeding with Bugsbane's graphic for the hedge seems reasonable.

[Bugsbane]

They do seem kinda creepy though, no eyeballs.

Possibly. It's worth remembering though, that some people found Mario's "eyes on inanimate objects" thing creepy too until they got used to it and it became accepted as a known stylistic thing. Now, wait until you see the blood-red version I did with fangs... ;)

[datahead8888]

I think we should target this one for the next release if possible.

[sydneyjd]

Yes we should try to get this solved before the next release. We still need to figure out what we style we are going to chose for our hedges, even though we have a pretty good idea at the moment.

[datahead8888]

We still need to figure out what we style we are going to chose for our hedges, even though we have a pretty good idea at the moment.

I had thought we were going with Bugsbane's graphic, but if I am wrong please correct me.

I just meant we need to get the decided submission committed and close this ticket.

[sydneyjd]

No, i think you are correct, i must not have read everything correctly. It seems everyone is OK with the new hedges, because no one has spoken up against it. ;) Are we good to commit this then?

-Sydney

[datahead8888]

I see both a png and svg, so it looks committable. I am going to mark this as version 2.1 so that we don't forget if we don't get to it right away.