SpacedOutChicken
commented
6 months ago For Hexlock spy names, I suggest using names of notable robots and artificial intelligences (Claude, Eliza, Watson, Kismet, Asimo, Bert, Neil, Blue, Alice, Alpha). For Deadrock Clan spy names, I suggest using famous gangster names (Capone, Escobar, Dillinger, Kray, Luciano, Bulger, Gotti, Siegel, Gambino, Cassidy).
To address the big question first: the core of the problem appears to be the inclusion of Electronics as a starting tech. I'm not sure that giving that as a starting tech was ever a good idea. Remove that, and we might solve multiple problems. We just need to figure out something else to reflect the idea that these factions managed to preserve some tech during the great collapse.
As for some of the buildings, I like the fact that the Listening Post and the Prison Camp are mutually exclusive. As I see it, when you conquer a city, you can choose to either set up a good spy network or set up an iron-fisted prison system, but you can't do both because your resources are limited. Do you think that's reasonable, or am I off base?
We also need to address policies, and to that end, I have an idea. While some policies should definitely make you more resistant to spying, could some policies make you more vulnerable? DeCiv's policies are full of tradeoffs like that, and I can see some policies and cultural practices making a civilization more vulnerable to espionage. One of the factions in Alpha Centauri, University of Planet, has this weakness: they're better at science, but it's easier to steal tech from them because of their general practice of open sharing of ideas. Could Rationalism have this weakness?
Edit 1: Added more spy names
Edit 2: On second thought, for Deadrock Clan spy names, it might be better to use gangster nicknames. New suggestions: Bugsy, Whitey, Soapy, Mickey, Baby Face, Ducks, Chin, Bomp, Owney, Lilo.
Edit 3: Added faction name.
the-s-is-silent
So, it happened. The major missing G&K mechanic was finally added.
This will be a discussion for how espionage should be incorporated into this fork of DeCiv over the next few days (re: keeping it true to DeCiv flavor).
Relevant Buildings and Wonders I propose converting the Listening Post into the Tier 1 anti-spy building and introducing a new building to function as the Great Person booster. My expansion mod "Outlaws of the Wastes" has already partially done this with its Community Garden building in its latest update, but I am interested in hearing any ideas the rest of the DeCiv community has here. If the Community Garden in Outlaws of the Wastes is ported over to this fork instead of making an entirely new building, some adjustments to other buildings that are unrelated to espionage might be made.
Additionally, Crimson Legion's Colosseum and Cult of Ignis' Arena UBs would be altered so that they replace the Stadium instead of the Listening Post and they would receive additional UBs to serve as their new Listening Post replacements. (I have no clue what Ignis' new Listening Post replacement might be called or even if there's a possible lore-accurate one to add. Legion's is easy, though: Frumentarii Camp.)
My proposed name for the Tier 2 anti-spy building would be the Field Office, which would be identical stat-wise to G&K's Police Station, and the connected National Wonder would be called the National Security Service which would also be identical stat-wise to G&K's National Intelligence Agency; the only differences being the techs that unlock them.
I do not yet have a proposal for a Great Firewall equivalent for DeCiv.
There also needs to be a question raised: should the Listening Post keep its other effect of eliminating extra unhappiness from annexed cities or not? If not, should the Prison Camp be reworked?
Spy Names At present, I only have possible spy name lists for seven of the fourteen factions in the current iteration of DeCiv Redux and will be counting on others to create flavor-accurate spy name lists for the others, as well as to revise the name lists I currently have.
Of the unaddressed factions, Enclavers should be easiest to figure out (notable survivalists in either real life or fiction), followed by New Afrika (no clear theme stands out, but stick to male African names you'd expect to find in Mali, Ethiopia, and also over on this side of the Pacific in Jamaica and it should be fine). Rust, Commonwealth and Patriots will be the hard ones.
Timing of Unlocking Spies Let's be honest: this is going to be a mess. In official Civ 5, the first spies for everyone are gained once any civilization reaches the Renaissance era. In the current version of DeCiv, four of the mod's fourteen factions have starting techs that automatically put them in its equivalent era, the Rebuilding era. Do those factions need to be adjusted so that they are kicked out of the Rebuilding era? Does the tech tree need to be adjusted? Or will the "simple" solution (which doesn't fix enough) merely be to have the first spies unlock at the Industrial era so shenanigans don't occur in games where any of the relevant factions (Atlas, Blackwarden, Hexlock, Patriots) spawn?
Edit 1: Added Ignis and Mariner spy names. Edit 2: Added Blackwarden spy names. Edit 3: Another tidbit on Legion/Ignis regarding their Listening Post replacements. Edit 4: Another tidbit on the missing factions' spy names.