Input lag 28/3/2024

[Bliddddddd3]

Description

28/3/2024 20:42 Match 7659229790

There was an increased input delay last night.

1) The character was delayed in responding after a left mouse button click 2) When moving an item to a different slot, the action was delayed, which can be seen in the video.

Twitch recording Time: 6 sec /// The moment I move the wind waker (slot X) to replace the Hex (slot C). https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota2-Gameplay/assets/135523246/3821509f-95c4-476f-8161-bb5e93675abe

Dota 2 demo On a Dota 2 replay, it looks like this: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota2-Gameplay/assets/135523246/4d11a62e-d85a-4aff-8b0c-4fe3614987af

• Also please note that this was before and after the recent notorious problem with input lag.

• I also tested on the standard values of console commands and on other values, the problem is exactly different

I'll also remind you of the problems we had earlier. (8-9 Feb.)

• Also before when there were packet losses (ultra rare), • it was always in/out 1/1, now 1/0.

• After the update, there was a problem, now when you change the language all binds do not work, if you check the box "use key position", which fixes the work of binds, the game sometimes behaves strangely

• Before the problems with input lag (8-9 feb), after a few alt-tabs the The responsiveness of the game was getting unpleasant, though not as much

Example Match ID (and possibly Timestamp)

No response

Screenshots

No response

[Bliddddddd3]

I've noticed that some games have immediate lag and usually the longer the game lasts, the worse the responsiveness in the game is

[IgorHoruzha]

15559 Possible related same issue.

[IgorHoruzha]

Could You provide Your PC Settings, please?

[Bliddddddd3]

Could You provide Your PC Settings, please?

What settings we're talking about, I don't quite understand. I can send you my computer configuration and Dota 2 settings

Windows 10 Pro 22H2 buil 19044.1288 RTX 3070 Msi gaming z trio Ryzen 7 5700X OEM 4475 ghz 16gb ram 3600 14/14/14/14/28 m2 samsung 970 evo plus nvme

Dota 2 settings

[Bliddddddd3]

compute shaders checked, in my case 0 positive effects

[Bliddddddd3]

Internet driver is up to date, video driver is up to date.

[Aeswaaaaa]

I've also noticed that from game to game, the lag feels different.

[IgorHoruzha]

@Bliddddddd3 Do You experience the issue without streaming on Twitch?

[IgorHoruzha]

@Aeswaaaaa @Bliddddddd3 @jeffhill

It appears that uploading excessive data can cause a spike in ping. If this spike is brief, it might not be visible in the network information display located in the top right corner of Dota. (In my case spike was not brief).This could explain the discrepancy. I managed to replicate the input lag that closely resembles this behavior by utilizing Speedtest.net. My upload latency is 50-300 some why and 160 in average but Ping is only 1(25-37 to Dota 2 servers). And uploading a lot of data makes ping up to ~400.

[Bliddddddd3]

@Aeswaaaaa @Bliddddddd3 @jeffhill

It appears that uploading excessive data can cause a spike in ping. If this spike is brief, it might not be visible in the network information display located in the top right corner of Dota. (In my case spike was not brief).This could explain the discrepancy. I managed to replicate the input lag that closely resembles this behavior by utilizing Speedtest.net. My upload latency is 50-300 some why and 160 in average but Ping is only 1(25-37 to Dota 2 servers). And uploading a lot of data makes ping up to ~400.

I can't say exactly how the lag is felt without streaming, I've been running a broadcast almost every time I start Dota for a long time now, I'll be actively testing today and will be able to give an accurate answer

But I can confidently say that when I start the broadcast, playing Dota 2, will continuously feel the added lag, it is not big, but it is there. And in single player and in other online games (cs, valorant, etc.) the impact of the stream is not felt. I spend the most time on dota and it's a shame that this is what's happening to it.

I also tested running the stream via OBS on very low settings and on high, the negative effect on latency will be either way. What I showed in the video is not the default during the broadcast, it is already abnormal in my experience

Again I remind you, after Dragon Hoard update, in/out graphs started to show different information, before I had losses (very rare), it was 1/1, now it's 1/0.

[Bliddddddd3]

[Client] cl_ticktiming. . . . . TOTAL: 138.1ms (directly measured, may not be sum of below) [Client] Sending User Commands . . : 28.1ms [Client] FirstInput -> NetSend . : 0.0ms [Client] Network latency . . . . : 19.5ms (assumed, RTT=39ms) [Client] Server recv margin. . . : 8.5ms (cl_tickpacket_desired_queuelength = 1) [Client] Server sim. . . . . . . . : 8.5ms [Client] Receiving server updates. : 100.5ms [Client] Network latency . . . . : 19.5ms (assumed, RTT=39ms) [Client] Client recv margin. . . : 8.3ms (6.5ms + 1.8ms due to frame quantization) [Client] Client interpolation. . : 33.3ms (cl_interp_ratio = 1) [Client] Render interpolation. . : 33.3ms [Client] Client sim + other . . .: 3.7ms [Client] Render. . . . . . . . . : 2.3ms [Client] Server tick 73116 was not available when we needed it, arrived -72.9ms too late [Client] Server tick 73117 dropped and we were not able to hide it using interpolation [Client] cl_ticktiming. . . . . TOTAL: 138.9ms (directly measured, may not be sum of below) [Client] Sending User Commands . . : 28.4ms [Client] FirstInput -> NetSend . : 0.0ms [Client] Network latency . . . . : 19.5ms (assumed, RTT=39ms) [Client] Server recv margin. . . : 8.9ms (cl_tickpacket_desired_queuelength = 1) [Client] Server sim. . . . . . . . : 8.3ms [Client] Receiving server updates. : 102.3ms [Client] Network latency . . . . : 19.5ms (assumed, RTT=39ms) [Client] Client recv margin. . . : 9.8ms (6.7ms + 3.1ms due to frame quantization) [Client] Client interpolation. . : 33.3ms (cl_interp_ratio = 1) [Client] Render interpolation. . : 33.3ms [Client] Client sim + other . . .: 3.9ms [Client] Render. . . . . . . . . : 2.4ms [Client] cl_ticktiming. . . . . TOTAL: 138.9ms (directly measured, may not be sum of below) [Client] Sending User Commands . . : 27.6ms [Client] FirstInput -> NetSend . : 0.0ms [Client] Network latency . . . . : 19.5ms (assumed, RTT=39ms) [Client] Server recv margin. . . : 8.1ms (cl_tickpacket_desired_queuelength = 1) [Client] Server sim. . . . . . . . : 8.4ms [Client] Receiving server updates. : 102.3ms [Client] Network latency . . . . : 19.5ms (assumed, RTT=39ms) [Client] Client recv margin. . . : 8.2ms (6.0ms + 2.2ms due to frame quantization) [Client] Client interpolation. . : 33.3ms (cl_interp_ratio = 1) [Client] Render interpolation. . : 33.3ms [Client] Client sim + other . . .: 4.9ms [Client] Render. . . . . . . . . : 3.0ms [Client] Server tick 73506 was not available when we needed it, arrived 9.6ms too late [Client] Server tick 73507 was not available when we needed it, arrived 22.2ms too late [Client] Server tick 73508 was not available when we needed it, arrived -13.7ms too late [Client] Server tick 73509 dropped and we were not able to hide it using interpolation

[Bliddddddd3]

I two days testing played a lot of mm and lobby, yet in different games, the lag is also felt differently, although I always play with an identical set-up, network settings in dota did not touch, always ping stable, but responsiveness varies

[IgorHoruzha]

Could You check Your latency, please? Were all the games with stream or any other background processes that use Network(Like Google Chrome or so on)?

[IgorHoruzha]

I also have a lot of messages like. 04/02 17:43:48 [Client] Server tick 354 dropped and we were not able to hide it using interpolation.

[Bliddddddd3]

[IgorHoruzha]

@Bliddddddd3 It looks really nice. Could You please check the latency when this issue occurs? Additionally, could You verify if the issue arises concurrently with Your ping checks? Have You experienced similar issues in any other online games? I would also recommend trying a continuous ping test to steamcommunity.com (using the Windows Command Prompt with the command ping steamcommunity.com -t) while You are playing, to monitor if Your Ping remains stable.

Green Block is what happened when I had started checking ping using SpeedTest.

The purpose is to understand where is the issue. On Your PC, Ethernet... or in Dota 2 application. Do You use WiFi or cable Ethernet?

[Bliddddddd3]

Here is the result of ping test with speedtest enabled: https://youtu.be/rr4_2C2yWq0 I'm using an ethernet cable

The latency is always different in Dota, I don't even need to restart Dota 2 itself, I can play in any game mode (all pick / custom lobby) and there and there the latency will always be different.

I logged into Valorant, with speedtest enabled the ping is the same as in cmd.exe

While doing this, the responsiveness of the game is still as nice

In Dota 2, as I checked and wrote above, I don't even need to run broadcast or Speedtest, it just happens by itself

If I can provide more detailed information, please advise how I can do so, I'm not too strong in data collection

And just for the record the internet driver latency and driver latency in general is excellent for me

[Bliddddddd3]

@IgorHoruzha I decided to do the same as you, play dota with speedtest enabled, it couldn't artificially cause the lag. As I said it happens at completely random moments and seems to be for completely different reasons

[IgorHoruzha]

@Bliddddddd3 Your Ethernet latency is nice. Could You also attempt to play Dota 2 while running the command 'ping steamcommunity.com -t' in the CMD, and, if any lag occurs, could You check whether the ping remains stable, please? We're looking for any spikes in ping.

Which server do you usually play on?

[Bliddddddd3]

@Bliddddddd3 Your Ethernet latency is nice. Could You also attempt to play Dota 2 while running the command 'ping steamcommunity.com -t' in the CMD, and, if any lag occurs, could You check whether the ping remains stable, please? We're looking for any spikes in ping.

Which server do you usually play on?

Ok, I'll play dota with cmd.exe enabled, I'll report the results tomorrow

I play on stockholm server, on other servers the difference in ping is almost double for me

I also heard information, but it's just a rumor, one streamer absolutely refuses to play on Stockholm servers, he thinks they are unstable/laggy.

[Bliddddddd3]

@IgorHoruzha

https://clips.twitch.tv/ProudKindAubergineBudStar-EyjdrHtrFHlCW8AJ time: 11 second

I've been very busy for two days, yesterday I had some time to play dota, I'm still evaluating the situation.

but I'm not empty handed, today on another streamer's broadcast I noticed the same problem.

the item again moved with a delay, he plays from Kazakhstan and although he has a high ping (91), in other cases he had items moved with normal speed.

[IgorHoruzha]

@Bliddddddd3 In my opinion, it seems like the issue is related to the ping, which either spikes intermittently or remains consistently high. This could be due to the quality of the Ethernet connection and data routing. It looks like the issue is in how to improve the Ethernet and the Ethernet provider service quality, or about how to prepare the game to unstable Ethernet.

[Bliddddddd3]

IgorHoruzha

@Bliddddddd3 In my opinion, it seems like the issue is related to the ping, which either spikes intermittently or remains consistently high. This could be due to the quality of the Ethernet connection and data routing. It looks like the issue is in how to improve the Ethernet and the Ethernet provider service quality, or about how to prepare the game to unstable Ethernet.

About 1) responsiveness of hero control and 2) transferring items from backpack to inventory or vice versa.

The first one can be compared to moovement or shooting in CS/Valorant, in my experience it never happened once that I press lcm (shot) and it happens in half a second. or I press the moovement button and the movement will start after some time.

The second can be compared with other interfaces, if as the buy menu will open with a delay or the menu of weapon selection will switch with a delay, I have not observed this, although in all three games the server is the same (Stockholm) and ping in all games is the same.

I've also always wondered why Dota 2 uses 80000 rate and cl_updaterate 30, although sv_min/maxupdaterate allows you to use 60 I am not good at network settings, but even in CS:GO the values were much higher. For the last month, especially during the tests I sit on the standard values that would be to create a level playing field in testing

Also concerning in hero tryout mode, there is always a stable responsiveness of the game, when as in an online match this feeling is blurred, it spoils the experience very much. It can be compared to the fact that one day a person wakes up cheerful and light, and another day sluggish and not turnable, there is no consistency and it is frustrating

I'm very glad that the recent Dota input lag problem has been fixed, it was unbearable to play the game at that time, but the problem I'm trying to bring up now also has a negative impact and it was, before the recent incident and still is to this day

[Bliddddddd3]

I've done a lot of benchmarks and tests on stability of speed, latency and internet quality.

Bufferbloat, jitter, latency is always in very close values, no jumps were observed, download speed in the same Steam is also stable, I do not argue 39 ping is also a tangible number, but most people play with the same ping or many times more, why of the three games given in the example, Dota one bites.

[Bliddddddd3]

Going into the same CS, I'm not afraid that today suddenly the game will not feel the same, before playing Dota you can ask everyone's blessing in advance and hope that in each subsequent game, responsiveness will be the same

[IgorHoruzha]

Bufferbloat, jitter, latency is always in very close values, no jumps were observed, download speed in the same Steam is also stable, I do not argue 39 ping is also a tangible number, but most people play with the same ping or many times more, why of the three games given in the example, Dota one bites.

Could You try playing Dota 2 while running the command 'ping steamcommunity.com -t' in the command prompt to monitor the network stability? Please note if there is any lag, and check whether the ping remains consistent. It's essential to determine if network latency is causing the issue. For instance, issue #16214 displayed ping spikes up to 80ms, although it typically averages around 5ms.

If the network ping isn't the problem, we need to figure out how to replicate the issue deliberately for further investigation.

Also concerning in hero tryout mode, there is always a stable responsiveness of the game, when as in an online match this feeling is blurred

It seems the issue is in online matches only. First item that I think about that The issue somewhere between a User PC and a Dota 2 server. So possible options, by the difficulty of finding and fixing. 1)Ping. 2)Upload/Download Latency. 3)An issue is in Dota2.exe application code base. 4)An issue is Server side code base.

The first two are relatively easy to check and sometimes even to fix on the User side. The second pair requires more tools, such as code debugging, log viewing, and intentional triggering. In My opinion, it's crucial to rule out the first two and gather as much data as possible before beginning the third and fourth steps. Issues are often related to the Ethernet side, but not always. Therefore, it's important to determine which side the problem lies on.

[Bliddddddd3]

Bufferbloat, jitter, latency is always in very close values, no jumps were observed, download speed in the same Steam is also stable, I do not argue 39 ping is also a tangible number, but most people play with the same ping or many times more, why of the three games given in the example, Dota one bites.

Could You try playing Dota 2 while running the command 'ping steamcommunity.com -t' in the command prompt to monitor the network stability? Please note if there is any lag, and check whether the ping remains consistent. It's essential to determine if network latency is causing the issue. For instance, issue #16214 displayed ping spikes up to 80ms, although it typically averages around 5ms.

If the network ping isn't the problem, we need to figure out how to replicate the issue deliberately for further investigation.

Also concerning in hero tryout mode, there is always a stable responsiveness of the game, when as in an online match this feeling is blurred

It seems the issue is in online matches only. First item that I think about that The issue somewhere between a User PC and a Dota 2 server. So possible options, by the difficulty of finding and fixing. 1)Ping. 2)Upload/Download Latency. 3)An issue is in Dota2.exe application code base. 4)An issue is Server side code base.

The first two are relatively easy to check and sometimes even to fix on the User side. The second pair requires more tools, such as code debugging, log viewing, and intentional triggering. In My opinion, it's crucial to rule out the first two and gather as much data as possible before beginning the third and fourth steps. Issues are often related to the Ethernet side, but not always. Therefore, it's important to determine which side the problem lies on.

Interesting observation While I'm in the process, I noticed that every time I press alt + tab, the ping in cmd.exe goes up by 5

upd: sometimes upd2: The ping value increased by +-5 units exactly after I did alt + tab, while when I intentionally do alt + tab, I rarely manage to reproduce it, I don't understand if it's a strong coincidence or a pattern.

[IgorHoruzha]

@Aeswaaaaa +-5ms ping isn't significant, it seems lag tends to occur when the ping exceeds 80ms as shown here and here. The prevailing theory suggests that ping spikes are due to Ethernet load.

To determine whether there's a connection between ping fluctuations and using alt+tab, or if it's merely coincidental, I suggest the following tests: 1) Monitor the ping for a period without performing any actions on the PC. 2) Use alt+tab with different games or applications to see if the issue is specific to Dota 2.

Could You please try these two scenarios?