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8 years ago Dan Hassan 15 August at 18:33 · · Science & Tech · Thoughts Question for blockchain nerds. Question: What would you call this? Transfer, or something else? Context: Have been building a data mining application which surfaces potential 'social and cultural' uses of the Bitcoin blockchain. 'Social and cultural' is defined as anything not immediately fiscal in nature (Bitcoin as magic Internet Money) but anything where the OP_RETURN operator flag has been used (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_RETURN) to indicate an insertion of arbitrary data into the blockchain. The thing is, when you drill deep into the Bitcoin protocol, there is not clear language to describe these uses. The naming hierarchy goes as follows: You have Blocks which contain Transaction ids (txid). Transactions contain lists of transactions, each transaction can have multiple ____ <--- I am thinking of defining these as Transfers which is relevant for both fiscal transfers but also transfers of knowledge, ownership etc etc etc If it means anything to you here is the Series of calls to the Bitcoin JSON-RPC server returning the first OP_RETURN transfer: https://gist.github.com/da…/b224d24b3da2deaba7c467a215b4e11c
Series of calls to the Bitcoin JSON-RPC server returning the first OP_RETURN transfer Series of calls to the Bitcoin JSON-RPC server returning the first OP_RETURN transfer GIST.GITHUB.COM LikeShow More ReactionsCommentShare 13Anja Kaa, Kernow Craig and 11 others 1 share Comments Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Boris Brett Rachel Tiziana Klara Denis Elias Tere Rory Like · Reply · 15 August at 18:35 · Edited Boris Jendrakowski Boris Jendrakowski Indelible free-text fields with peer-verified timestamps
Catchy, I know Like · Reply · 1 · 15 August at 18:59 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Free as in.... there's always an externalised cost some where ;) Like · Reply · 15 August at 19:10 Boris Jendrakowski Boris Jendrakowski Hmm I think this is free as in electrons. Negligible cost. Like · Reply · 15 August at 19:20 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan https://blockchain.info/charts/cost-per-transaction
Though, one argument made for example: https://files.dyne.org/.../Bitcoin_end_of_taboo_on_money.pdf...See more Bitcoin Charts - Blockchain.info Bitcoin Charts - Blockchain.info BLOCKCHAIN.INFO Like · Reply · Remove Preview · Yesterday at 12:59 Boris Jendrakowski Boris Jendrakowski Zero is less than negative Like · Reply · Yesterday at 21:38 Boris Jendrakowski Boris Jendrakowski Mm I think I just found the title of my cyberpunk fiction book :) Like · Reply · Yesterday at 21:40 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Boris Jendrakowski lol Like · Reply · Yesterday at 22:39 Dan Hassan
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Choose File Klara Jaya Brekke Klara Jaya Brekke Transfer seems pretty spot on to me - as it means both transferring to someone/ something, as well as imprinting onto something. Pretty suitable in my mind as the blockchain does both :) Like · Reply · 2 · 15 August at 19:02 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan :) Like · Reply · 15 August at 19:10 Dan Hassan
Write a reply... Choose File Daniel Buchan Daniel Buchan Doesn't transfer have a specific technical meaning in banking?
If it is really just an insertion/upload/addition of information into a resource (i.e. the blockchain) then perhaps 'post' is a more generic and general term in comp sci for such an action Like · Reply · 2 · 15 August at 19:06 · Edited Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Good points, well made. Like · Reply · 15 August at 19:10 Dan Hassan
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Choose File Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Vinay Tomer Mix Like · Reply · 15 August at 19:09 Mix Irving Mix Irving ask on patchwork :) there's a bunch of nerds there who might have good ideas Like · Reply · 15 August at 20:06 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Good idea :) Like · Reply · 15 August at 20:06 Dan Hassan
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Choose File Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Daniel RE: use of transfer in banking. Though this may be true, blockchain ecosystems have historically been discreet from the banking sector per se (though 'blockchain as banking tool, see R3 Banking consortium are quickly folding this into the corpor...See more Like · Reply · 1 · 15 August at 20:11 · Edited Daniel Buchan Daniel Buchan Hmm interesting. If you're inserting arbitrary data in to the blockchain do you loose that data? I assume you're just posting a copy of that information. In which case 'post' (in the client-resource & client-server sense) remains a good fit.
If using the OP_RETURN flag implies that you destroy/lose control of the information at the client side then this will require a bit more thought.
Are you send this data to notify other blockchain users of some information. Maybe "alert" would be a good term. Perhaps "send" would be good as it has prior use in signalling and can imply that you're losing ownership of the item/data (like sending a letter)
note: POST (all caps) should likely only be used in reference to http methods/actions Like · Reply · 15 August at 21:35 · Edited Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Actually the data which is inserted remains stored within the blockchain. This is for a small amount of data (about a tweets worth), so what has unfolded there is a protocol within a protocol, with prefixes being claimed by certain service providers (see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_RETURN).
What has transapired is that services insert a hash of a larger dataset which is then pointed at off-chain within the external service...
Perhaps then we could also consider Reference.
Point taken about POST :) Got CAPSLOCK happy en.bitcoin.it | 523: Origin is unreachable Check your DNS Settings. A 523 error means that CloudFlare could not reach your host web server. The most common cause is that your DNS settings are incorrect. Please contact your hosting provider to confirm your origin IP and then make sure the correct IP is listed for your A record in your CloudFl... EN.BITCOIN.IT Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 15 August at 22:00 Daniel Buchan Daniel Buchan Maybe "signal" would be a good term and then you could classify messages in to different types of signal. References, annotations, alerts Like · Reply · 15 August at 23:32 · Edited Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Very like. Klara Tere what do you think? Like · Reply · 15 August at 22:56 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan If this becomes a thing it can be fondly and idellibly known as the Buchan Signal Like · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 00:21 Dan Hassan
Write a reply... Choose File Daniel Buchan Daniel Buchan Sure, my point was more that people are already using 'transfer' in the context of bitcoins to refer to exchange of bitcoins from one wallet to another (taking their lead from banking). So there is at least one blockchain using community which has alre...See more Like · Reply · 15 August at 20:14 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Good point well made :) Like · Reply · 15 August at 20:15 Spencer Carter Spencer Carter I wish I understood what this is . Damn I'm getting older Like · Reply · 15 August at 21:17 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan We're not much further behind you Spencer... just depends on what floats yer boat ;) Like · Reply · Yesterday at 13:00 Dan Hassan
Write a reply... Choose File Rob Myers Rob Myers They're "outputs" in blockchain terminology. Like · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 03:33 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Rob, agreed. The generic term for many of the Script (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script) opcodes outputs are "outputs" (UTXO etc).
Arguably, however, OP_RETURN was that fist formal BIP which from the outset assumed that the Bitcoin blockchain would b...See more Script - Bitcoin Wiki Bitcoin uses a scripting system for transactions. Forth-like, Script is simple, stack-based, and processed from left to right. It is purposefully not Turing-complete, with no loops. EN.BITCOIN.IT Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 1 · Yesterday at 12:56 · Edited Rob Myers Rob Myers I'd say "included data", but I see what you're getting at and yes I don't think there's a term for this. I wonder if the people creating oracles have one. There's a weaker potential for truth with Op_Return - the truth of any purely utxo transaction is...See more Like · Reply · Yesterday at 13:44 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Trent would be very interested to hear how y'all speak about such 'oracles' within ascribe... Like · Reply · Yesterday at 14:01 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Rob how about "signalled data"? Like · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 14:06 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan As included, to me would indicate discreetly within the closed ecosystem, rather than a signal to an external entity. Like · Reply · Yesterday at 14:06 Rob Myers Rob Myers "Signalled data" is good, yes. Like · Reply · Yesterday at 14:19 Trent McConaghy Trent McConaghy To me, database terminology makes the most sense. No need to invent anything new here.
For what you're asking, the standard term in databases is "insert". It sits next to "update", "delete", and more. ...See more
Like · Reply · Yesterday at 16:22 · Edited
Dan Hassan
Dan Hassan Trent , I hear your point... But by that standard there is not differentiation between any of the 100+ opcodes as they are all inserted into the blockchain when utelised.
AFAIK OP_RETURN has been the only BIP which was specifically added as a way of formally inserting data from off-chain. Do you know if this is correct? Like · Reply · 6 mins · Edited Dan Hassan
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Choose File Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Trent would very much value your input in this! Like · Reply · Yesterday at 13:01 Dan Hassan Dan Hassan Ian would also value you input in this :) Like · Reply · Yesterday at 13:04
Need to look at the taxonomy / linguistics of what we mean by transactions within Blocks in relation to Transactions