A breakaway paper occurred... Treephon!

[rdmanzanedo]

Hi All,

All these months of discussion have been super fascinating. Not only because of the good company and chats but also because as the tree-ring 'representative' (together with Ailene and Janneke), it has been really interesting to see how much of the assumed knowledge and expectations for tree rings differ from the realities of the field (which are very seldom discussed), and how far away we are from being able to effectively use tree ring big data jointly with other databases if we don't really take agency.

This, together with the stuff of my own proposal has made me think it would be useful to put those thoughts and impressions we have been sharing the last months on paper (and they would be out of place on the grephon paper), therefore I propose here to create a subgroup of grephon that addresses these issues, which I will lead myself (unless somebody wants to take the lead). Anybody interested is very welcomed to join, and I don't discard involving some other dendrofolks for feedback.

Between yesterday evening and this morning, I put together a first full draft of this opinion piece, which you can read here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xT8x92REDGu9GF1TXzytpRjCifbM_AnI6Hx6QUG4Ff4/edit?usp=sharing

The main message is to call for dendroecologist to start taking seriously (much more politely phrased) tree ring data for ecology. And 4 key points that I have seen emerge in the last months for this are: 1) Actively discussing and addressing biases in dendrodata. 2) Creating guidelines for non-tree ring experts to access, use, and interpret large tree ring data. 3) Encourage data integration with other sources (and reevaluate methodological legacies) 4) Promote theory-driven dendroecology.

What you guys think? Does that sound useful? Anybody on board for this? Doesn't have to be a large piece (actually I think that already there is quite a lot in the doc).

Cheers, R

[alanaroseo]

Ruben! It's really great! I'm in if you think I can be helpful - but that's a pretty solid draft already. So fast it's a treephon typhoon

[lizzieinvancouver]

@rdmanzanedo Looks cool from the abstract! I especially LOVE pt 4 ... I look forward to reading it. I am happy to be helpful on it if I can, but always supportive of a GREPHON breakaway ... a ... wait, I don't have a witty pun yet, but working on it.

[AileneKane]

I love these points and would love to be part of it!

[lizzieinvancouver]

@rdmanzanedo Thanks for the offer of me to be on this. After reading it, I don't feel like I know the dendro lit enough to provide a lot more than you and others can. I also have enough on my plate with the other GREPHON paper and other things, so I don't think I can help here. Thanks again though.

[lizzieinvancouver]

@kavs-P @jannekehrl please reach out to @rdmanzanedo if you're interested to be involved!

[kavs-P]

@rdmanzanedo This is really cool! I'm loving the message of the paper and I can see how it's linked the recommendations grephon paper. I am happy to be a part of it if you think I can be helpful and add any additional dimensions (that aren't already represented by others in the group). But also happy to step aside. Don't want to slow this treephon typhoon down 😄

[rdmanzanedo]

Great! I got Neil onboard with this and he provided great comments already. More info coming your way soon :)

[rdmanzanedo]

Hi All,

I have tried my best to implement everybody's comments and suggestions (thanks to all!). I have taken note of the ideas for a graphical element but I think I will rather prepare one between first submission and potential reviews, as we will have more time then and we can see how it is received.

I will try to submit quite soon (formatting and last pass), to Trends in Ecol & Evol (knowing that they may reject it quite fast based on the 3 authors absurd rule, but at least we will make them spell it!)

Tasks: -For all, please let me know if your affiliation need any correction. Specially: @AileneKane @FrederikBaumgarten @alanaroseo I wasn't 100% sure how you prefer it.

• @AileneKane If you can add a reference on the text of the part we commented (now in line 78). there is another reference later in the text, feel free to expand if you think it may improve with that.

I am aiming to submit mid-next week, so, if everything is fine as is, no need for confirmation. (if you want something in particular in the acknowledgements add it here too

:)

[rdmanzanedo]

ok, following the suggestion by Neil, I tried to draft a figure that may be useful to add? (not necessarily for this round, but maybe over the review). Neil suggested to show how a better data integration may look like so I thought about suggesting where our suggestions target in the pipeline of tree ring data?

So, came up with this?

where the caption will specify that each of the numbers will be one of the target ideas: 1) priority and limitations in the databases (and guidelines), 2) Integration with other datasets, 3) improved mechanistic approaches in dendro.

Does this look useful to work more on to potentially add it?

[alanaroseo]

Mine is: Alana RO Chin, Department of Biological Sciences, California State Polytechnic University, Humboldt. Arcata, CA

On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 5:25 AM, rdmanzanedo @.***> wrote:

Hi All,

I have tried my best to implement everybody's comments and suggestions (thanks to all!). I have taken note of the ideas for a graphical element but I think I will rather prepare one between first submission and potential reviews, as we will have more time then and we can see how it is received.

I will try to submit quite soon (formatting and last pass), to Trends in Ecol & Evol (knowing that they may reject it quite fast based on the 3 authors absurd rule, but at least we will make them spell it!)

Tasks: -For all, please let me know if your affiliation need any correction. Specially: @AileneKane https://github.com/AileneKane @FrederikBaumgarten https://github.com/FrederikBaumgarten @alanaroseo https://github.com/alanaroseo I wasn't 100% sure how you prefer it.

• @AileneKane https://github.com/AileneKane If you can add a reference on the text of the part we commented (now in line 78). there is another reference later in the text, feel free to expand if you think it may improve with that.

I am aiming to submit mid-next week, so, if everything is fine as is, no need for confirmation. (if you want something in particular in the acknowledgements add it here too

:)

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/lizzieinvancouver/grephon/issues/32#issuecomment-1946092408, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AILTTQFIZ4BYTVR3F32ZOGDYTYEEBAVCNFSM6AAAAAA5Q5IELOVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTSNBWGA4TENBQHA . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

[FrederikBaumgarten]

For me its: Frederik Baumgarten, Forest and Conservation Sciences, Faculty of Forestry, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

[rdmanzanedo]

A submission inquiry was sent to TREE with the paper (I did not know that TREE required pre-submission inquiry but apparently that is the case). We quickly updated the figure and added it too (thanks for the feedback janneke :) ).

The editor will get back to us within 1-2 weeks, according to their reply. R

[alanaroseo]

Fingers crossed😁🤞

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 5:53 AM rdmanzanedo @.***> wrote:

A submission inquiry was sent to TREE with the paper (I did not know that TREE required pre-submission inquiry but apparently that is the case). We quickly updated the figure and added it too (thanks for the feedback janneke :) ).

The editor will get back to us within 1-2 weeks, according to their reply. R

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/lizzieinvancouver/grephon/issues/32#issuecomment-1954263250, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AILTTQG4MRVZF4DK4CXKITTYUSTGRAVCNFSM6AAAAAA5Q5IELOVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTSNJUGI3DGMRVGA . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>