Bring back live tiles on Windows 10X

[JaiganeshKumaran]

Proposal: Bring back live tiles on Windows 10X

Live tiles are the best thing ever invented. Ever since they were introduced in 2012 on Windows desktop, apps were created to use Live tiles. Although the amount is not that huge, many people including me rely heavily on live tiles. On mobile devices like the Surface Neo, it makes more sense to have live tiles and innovate.

Summary

Microsoft has decided to remove live tiles and replace it with static dumb old school icons to be consistent with other platforms. This is not acceptable and bad for the future of Windows. It doesn't need to be in the start screen but could be in the empty desktop space on 10x.

Rationale

• Many existing apps use live tiles and they will be lost if live tiles aren't in 10x
• Windows will be unique in the OS space.

Scope

Capability	Priority
This proposal will allow developers to use live tiles on 10X	Must
This proposal will allow end users to see live tiles on the start menu or the empty desktop	Must

Important Notes

Open Questions

[mdtauk]

I would like to see Live Tiles remain with Windows 10X.

With the addition of iOS Widgets to Apple's devices - that should be seen as a validation of the original concept. Live Tiles should be invested in and further developed to make them more useful and added functionality and customisation.

Of course this brings to mind where they should exist in the UI. I use a full screened Start Menu on my Surface Go and on my Desktop PC. Most of the Live tiles are just icons, but some of them are Live and useful. Finding a way for the Icons like with Windows 10X and the Live Tiles can co-exist should be investigated.

Then there are those that have wanted the Live Tiles to not be in the Start Menu / Launcher area, but pinned to the desktop.

Why can't they exist in both? iOS uses icons that are contained in rounded square shapes, and extend that shape to encompass their widgets. Now the 20H2 Start Menu does something similar, with Acrylic/Translucent tiles, where as Windows 10X has free floating icons of various shapes. Maybe the two styles could co exist, with some kind of invisible grid, and rounded corners on the Live Tiles / Widgets you choose to Pin to the Desktop or Start/Launcher UIs will look more like cards, and so wont feel out of place on an invisible grid?

[JaiganeshKumaran]

@mdtauk Something like this would be really great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGMEXtPRT_I

[mdtauk]

@mdtauk Something like this would be really great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGMEXtPRT_I

Bringing up Windows 8 era concepts wont be winning people around. Android has had interactive widgets for a long time, but they are usually ugly and glitchy. Apple's are quite similar to Microsoft's more restrictive Live Tiles, but has a bit more functionality compared to them.

Better to use more recent examples if you hope to persuade the teams of the familiarity and cross-platform appeal for keeping and refreshing them.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

@mdtauk The static icons on 10x are just all apps list with no pin so they can co-exist.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

@mdtauk Is this familiar? https://www.dummies.com/wp-content/uploads/79658.image2.jpg

[Neptune-mk2]

I'm a big fan and user of tiles, I've used them since they became available in Windows 8, and continue to use them in my start screen in Windows 10, I have my current Start set up like a control center that brings me any relevant information I need at a glance, and I always thought the functionality of tiles could be improved by making them more like widgets as well! Seeing how Apple took a similar approach with their widgets, I think it would be great if Tiles are ever implemented in 10X that they could have additional widget like functionality.

Tiles not being in 10X has also been one of the things that has repulsed me from even considering 10X, I don't like the start interface 10X has at all, it feels like a dumbed down generic android home screen, and it doesn't bring the useful functionality tiles have in Windows 10, I couldn't have the same tile sections I have on my Sufrace where I have a whole section dedicated to being a news feed, some would argue you could get the same via notification but thats not a solution, that would just fill up my notification center with a bunch of articles and not give me a quick at a glance look at topics I pinned in start.

The lack of familiarity in 10X was also another big worry of mine, the start menu with tiles is more familiar and customizable than a grid of static icons.

[mdtauk]

@mdtauk Is this familiar?

To old macOS "widgets" sure...

---

But not to the new iOS ones.

And here are the Windows 10X Icon Launcher, and the current Icon Tiles

[JaiganeshKumaran]

Windows 10X has an empty desktop with no files so these could be put in there and the launcher menu could be the all apps screen.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

Here's a concept by me on how it can look: I'm bad at design so don't mind

[ghost]

I think that Microsoft should let non-packed Win32 Apps use Live Tiles. By use, I mean change the background color, size, etc. Because Tiles are limited for most people who use Win32.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

@dragonDScript Win32 apps can use live tiles as long as they are packaged like regular UWP apps. I think all apps must become packaged one day to prevent slowing down and living junk behind and use MSIX as the installer. However, for other apps, I have already proposed that in #172.

[mdtauk]

There may be some within Microsoft who think the name "Live Tiles" is a negative, so if needs be, they could be re-branded App Cards, which can live in the Start Menu, or on the Desktop.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

@mdtauk Not needed. Live tiles are not negative. Windows legacy users who hate change are to blame. Also, the name "live tiles" is not really used in the Windows UI and is only for a reference. Without change, there's no innovation. These users never understand this and this is the reason why Microsoft gave use the Start menu which I like but it also removed a lot of useful features and customization options. Even iOS has know caught up with something Microsoft did really well 8 years ago. But Microsoft is going back to how iOS was 8 years ago. If Microsoft closes this and ignores this, it's a shame for Windows 10x since an 8 year OS can do some much more.

[ghost]

@dragonDScript Win32 apps can use live tiles as long as they are packaged like regular UWP apps. I think all apps must become packaged one day to prevent slowing down and living junk behind and use MSIX as the installer. However, for other apps, I have already proposed that in #172.

What I meant is that unpacked win32 apps should be able to get custom live tiles. Because, as an example, Godot can't be installed per user or system. It is a portable .exe

[ghost]

There may be some within Microsoft who think the name "Live Tiles" is a negative, so if needs be, they could be re-branded App Cards, which can live in the Start Menu, or on the Desktop.

This looks like a good idea. Live Tiles remembers to Windows 8 which wasn't very popular at all (even if I like it)

[JaiganeshKumaran]

Or how about the name Gadgets which was used in Vista and 7? It's familiar to lots of existing users.

[mdtauk]

Or how about the name Gadgets which was used in Vista and 7? It's familiar to lots of existing users.

You are sounding more and more troll like... Gadgets are dead, let's not make Zombie UI lol

[ghost]

Or how about the name Gadgets which was used in Vista and 7? It's familiar to lots of existing users.

Gadgets sound like unsecure (because they were lol). And slow (because of Vista). I would rename them to something different.

[stevewri]

This is a shell design issue, not Reunion. I'll see if I can find the right owner.

[andrewleader]

While this is partially a Shell design issue, let's use this thread for developers to explain why they need Live Tiles/widgets for their users. What scenarios are your users trying to accomplish in your apps? What do you, as a developer, need to deliver the best experience to your users?

[michael-hawker]

I mean as a user, I find the action centered cluttered with notifications for messaging apps a lot. So, I either leave these all open running or pinned to my taskbar. If we had a richer live tile experience that was easy for devs/apps to use (back-end services as well), then for users that want to focus, they could pin tiles for these things and be able to glance at if they have any notifications and a quick peak at their most recent message and stuff.

I mean I still miss my (android) phone not easily just having my next calendar appointment shown by default on my lock screen... The stuff Windows Phone trail blazed still never lived up to it's full potential even today.

[lukemcdo]

The biggest problem I have is that I didn't even know local live tile changes were an option. This feels like the type of thing where better messaging and UI in VS would have improved discovery and added value.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

Notifications are good for apps that need to instantly show some info like messaging apps but for other apps it's distracting. Live tiles are a powerful concept and can be used for many things like background apps etc... However today it's very limited however just like what you did with notifications, why not allow some specific controls like buttons to be put up?

[mdtauk]

The biggest problem I have is that I didn't even know local live tile changes were an option. This feels like the type of thing where better messaging and UI in VS would have improved discovery and added value.

You obviously missed out on the Windows Phone and Windows 8 days :)

[lukemcdo]

You misunderstand. I've always known that the live tile could use a web hook. I have no interest in writing a weather app or email client though so web hooks aren't very interesting to me. A local live tile change is much preferable.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

Local live tile change is already possible @lmcdougald

[mdtauk]

You misunderstand. I've always known that the live tile could use a web hook. I have no interest in writing a weather app or email client though so web hooks aren't very interesting to me. A local live tile change is much preferable.

When Live Tiles were introduced, there was support for background tasks, and an API for local tile updates.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

Making tiles more interactive is the way to go. Current tiles have reached the end of what it can support. You can imagine a browser downloading a file in the background and reporting the download progress on the tile if pinned. This will remove the need for taskbar progress (#68) since it can't show the actual information clearly. JumpList options could also be optionally provided removing the need for right-click. Many apps like screen recorders need to be accessed quickly and use a system tray icon. However, it feels cluttered because of over-use but if the tile is pinned on the Start screen, that could show quick options that will activate the app in the background or foreground. Apps like Word could for example show options directly enabling you to quickly open or create a file by passing arguments to the Word app without opening Word, then selecting an option. There can also be other uses for these kinds of tiles. Since most of the apps today are unpackaged apps, I've created a proposal to allow them to use new tile features (#172).

[mdtauk]

Making tiles more interactive is the way to go. Current tiles have reached the end of what it can support. You can imagine a browser downloading a file in the background and reporting the download progress on the tile if pinned. This will remove the need for taskbar progress (#68) since it can't show the actual information clearly. JumpList options could also be optionally provided removing the need for right-click. Many apps like screen recorders need to be accessed quickly and use a system tray icon. However, it feels cluttered because of over-use but if the tile is pinned on the Start screen, that could show quick options that will activate the app in the background or foreground. Apps like Word could for example show options directly enabling you to quickly open or create a file by passing arguments to the Word app without opening Word, then selecting an option. There can also be other uses for these kinds of tiles.

I don't think it should go so far as to be a mini app, but perhaps an actionable button when in Wide or Large formats?

[JaiganeshKumaran]

@mdtauk It's not going to provide the full capability also all options should open in the foreground app. For example, an app can replace system tray icons with a tile with options. Each option will simply activate the foreground app. It's not going to run always. Many XAML controls that aren't text input can be provided which all activates the foreground app on click. All of this will be populated in the background on first run. It should not perfom any action when not running.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

There should be a way to provide custom context menu items. For example, if you click on the news tile it will just open the app and currently, there's no way to get into the story. Although you could override that behaviour the intended action is to open the app. If the context menu had a "View story" option for the news tile, it will make it easier. JumpList could do this but it will appear in the all apps list as well as taskbar icon and not just the start menu. The settings app for example can provide a list of navigation pages in the tile, letting you jump directly to System or devices. The calculator app can show all of the pages on it like Standard, Scientific, Programmer etc... letting you quickly jump.

[mdtauk]

There should be a way to provide custom context menu items. For example, if you click on the news tile it will just open the app and currently, there's no way to get into the story. Although you could override that behaviour the intended action is to open the app. If the context menu had a "View story" option for the news tile, it will make it easier. JumpList could do this but it will appear in the all apps list as well as taskbar icon and not just the start menu.

There is, the Jump List. These work on the Taskbar Icon as well as the App Tile

[JaiganeshKumaran]

@mdtauk Right but then why apps are on the system tray with a custom context menu?

[mdtauk]

@mdtauk Right but then why apps are on the system tray with a custom context menu?

Windows 10X doesn't have a system tray. And it is a more outdated way of doing an app. These usually run in the background which UWP apps don't do.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

Many UWP developers want the notification area icon (unofficially system tray) and today they are using a full trust component for that sometimes exclusively. Instead, if jumplists & tiles can offer a better experience, it will run everywhere. It's outdated and I don't like it but many developers want it.

[mdtauk]

Many UWP developers want the notification area icon (unofficially system tray) and today they are using a full trust component for that sometimes exclusively. Instead, if jumplists & tiles can offer a better experience, it will run everywhere. It's outdated and I don't like it but many developers want it.

Windows 10X is supposedly being pivoted to focus on a single screen experience, rather than launching first on Dual Screen devices. Let's see if some affordance is made for background apps, without a task tray icon

[JaiganeshKumaran]

Instead of just action buttons, there should be buttons like a list. For example, all your unread mails could be in a list and clicking inside the list view item border will open that message but clicking outside the list will open the app in default mode. Of course this for wide and large sizes. For regular size it will show as current with a static message that doesn't do anything. This list should have some border to open the app in default as well and must not have anything else like a context menu or other controls. It's purely system controlled and the app only loads text and images that are launched by the system with arguments. For the mail app it may not be that useful but for the news app it could be since currently, the large MSN News tile shows in a list like format but you can't really click on it.

[mdtauk]

Instead of just action buttons, there should be buttons like a list. For example, all your unread mails could be in a list and clicking inside the list view item border will open that message but clicking outside the list will open the app in default mode. Of course this for wide and large sizes. For regular size it will show as current with a static message that doesn't do anything. This list should have some border to open the app in default as well and must not have anything else like a context menu or other controls. It's purely system controlled and the app only loads text and images that are launched by the system with arguments.

You then enter problems with scrolling. When using touch the tile would launch the app when you tap on it, but you also scroll with touching.

At the moment a Live Tile can cycle between items, and tapping it will take you to that content within the app. So for larger tiles, a button you can tap or click is one thing - but displaying lists or multiple tap targets becomes a problem.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

The system should make sure that there's no scrolling so it only shows till the space is available. Even if you add more from a background task it should simply ignore it if it exceeds the space. Or the app could flip the tile and change the contents every second to a specified limit. Instead of scrolling, you could change what's shown. The spacing should be large enough for touch and shouldn't be customizable. All this should only be available for wide and large sizes. An app with a navigation view for main content can show each navigation item in the tile allowing direct access in a list that will only show according to the space available and with no overflow.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

https://aka.ms/AAaf10a

[JaiganeshKumaran]

I think Microsoft should get rid of tiles in the start menu and replace the desktop icons with tiles and the Start menu should be just an all apps list.

Put this on the desktop (without the hamburger menu):

And make the start menu just like this:

[JaiganeshKumaran]

Apps should run on top of tiles

[JaiganeshKumaran]

When Start is open

[JaiganeshKumaran]

The blur can be reduced to make it feel more like the actual desktop. Just replace icons with tiles on the desktop with multiple sections with some modifications to make it more like the original Windows desktop. Current desktop icons are an old concept and need to be replaced. For files, Microsoft could pin a shortcut to the desktop folder as a tile or could have a section called desktop will all the files and folders accessible from there

[JaiganeshKumaran]

I get it. Microsoft is afraid to change core parts since every time they change something a huge people refuse it and say pointless negative statements which don't make sense. However, Microsoft should keep trying and not keep old stuff alive and new stuff dead. People will eventually get used to it. The current tile layout is not so customizable and should be more customizable and tiles should be more interactive.

[JaiganeshKumaran]

Maybe tiles and desktop icons could co-exist on the same desktop similar to the old Gadget feature and the Start menu can be simplified to just an all apps list

[michael-hawker]

Maybe tiles and desktop icons could co-exist on the same desktop similar to the old Gadget feature and the Start menu can be simplified to just an all apps list

Yeah, I don't know how I'd feel about forcing the start menu to replace the Desktop. Some folks just like a blank pretty picture. But I do like the idea of bringing back Gadgets, those were really useful. And part of that could just be a 'Start Menu' one which has the tiles for apps. It does make sense to provide a quick launch type of experience when you have nothing open.

Of course, you'd have to think about how this works with multi-mon as well.

[mdtauk]

So Insider Build 21286 has dropped, and News/Weather has a new Taskbar Flyout, which brings up a bunch of "Live Tile" like cards.

• Is this the future of Live Tiles for 10X?
• Will third parties be afforded this kind of Taskbar Flyout UI space to render their UI or Tiles?
• Will the user be able to create a group on the Taskbar, which contains pinned tiles, where the Launcher/Start Menu has removed Live Tiles?

[ghost]

This is enough for me. And will be well-received for most users (since it looks like ¡OS tiles).

[JaiganeshKumaran]

@mdtauk

I think it's a specific app implementation and a system-wide feature, Also it uses a lot of space so how many apps can be there?