advanced: percentage Post-tax vs Pre-tax contributions within 401k, and other accounts

[rrelyea]

Perhaps this is just a PercentageRoth property on a 401k account?

Then tax-type view would have to specially handle the fact that an account can be both pre-tax and post-tax

[rrelyea]

This would also show up in the boglehead output format.

[rrelyea]

Feedback from retiredjg:

Need to take "Roth 401k" off the list. There is no such thing, at least the way I understand it. Inside a 401k plan, there can be an option to contribute to a Roth 401k sub-account (up to the employer). All 401ks must allow traditional contributions.

In the backlog, I have an issue to track adding a %roth to a 401k...for when people have some roth contributions...seems like that will also solve the roth scenario.

[rrelyea]

me at Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:49 pm :

I'm not totally clear on your reply, so I will restate my description of the tools behavior: this is part of the programming code that categorizes different AccountTypes into different tax-types:

"401(k)" or "403(b)" or "457(b)" or "457(b) Governmental" or "SEP IRA" or "Solo 401(k)" or "SIMPLE IRA" => "Pre-Tax(work)", "Annuity (Qualified)" or "Inherited IRA" or "Traditional IRA" or "Rollover IRA" => "Pre-Tax(other)", "Inherited Roth IRA" or "Roth 401(k)" or "Roth IRA" or "HSA" => "Post-Tax", "Annuity (Non-Qualified)" or "Brokerage" or "Individual" or "Taxable" => "Taxable", "Life Insurance" => "For Beneficiaries (POD)", "529" => "Education Savings", _ => "Other",

retiredjg:

What I'm saying is that these are mostly not pre-tax accounts. A 401k, 403b, or 457 can contain Roth contributions and/or after-tax contributions that are not Roth.

A SIMPLE IRA or inherited IRA or traditional IRA or Rollover IRA may also contain post tax contributions. They are not necessarily pre-tax.

The difference is that some are work accounts (sponsored by employer) and some are personal accounts (created by individual investors). It has nothing to do with pre-tax or taxable. You may have some programming reason to label them pre-tax or taxable, but what you have is not consistent with how things really are.

[rrelyea]

retiredjg:

I stumbled onto your tax treatment page and see now why you have divided accounts into pre-tax and taxable. Unfortunately, the way it is divided is just not accurate for the reasons I mentioned a few days ago. I'm hoping this is a small problem, but suspect it might be basic to how you have set things up. :?

[rrelyea]

I can imagine having an AfterTaxPercentage associated with 401k and some other account types:

But, how should this be represented in portfolio review format? Current look:

Options that pop into my mind: 1) add info to account header: "her current 401(k) (12%)" could instead be "her current 401(k) (11.7% + 0.3% after tax)"

2) add another account header:

her current 401(k) (11.7%) 5.45% - Vanguard Institutional Total Stock Market Index Trust (VITPX) (??%) 2.83% - Dodge & Cox Income Fund (DODIX) (??%) 2.13% - Vanguard International Growth Fund Admiral Shares (VWILX) (??%) 1.29% - Vanguard International Value Fund (VTRIX) (??%)

her current 401(k) (.3% after tax) .15% - Vanguard Institutional Total Stock Market Index Trust (VITPX) (??%) .07% - Dodge & Cox Income Fund (DODIX) (??%) .07% - Vanguard International Growth Fund Admiral Shares (VWILX) (??%) .01% - Vanguard International Value Fund (VTRIX) (??%)

3) or just ignore it in the format?

4) other ideas?

[rrelyea]

choice 3.
I've kept that capability, but have hidden it by default... only by clicking the bottom choice at https://bogle.tools/portfolio/accounts will you be able to enter it...

Advanced Portfolio Settings: (experimental) ⬜ Show warning if > 5% concentration of an individual stock ⬜ Show advice for tax efficient placement ⬜ Track After-Tax Percentage for Account that might have Pre and Post-Tax contributions

keeping this issue to track completeness of that feature.

[rrelyea]

user asked about this...yes, the checkbox is there...but in my quick testing, it is not currently working.

[rrelyea]

also had another user private message about TIAA accounts.

With regard to the tax-deferred and Roth positions in my 403 and 457 plans, in my case all of the VBMPX is tax-deferred, and all of the VIIIX is Roth. But from what I can see your tool only classifies an account as tax-deferred versus Roth, not the individual holdings within an account.