Moving Frames and Keys at the Same Time

[ghost]

Every one in a hundred times I am able to do some magic with key modifiers and move a frame and its key together. There is also a preference to move frames and cell data together, but that only seems to work when moving from column to column, not within the same column.

@manongjohn Am I missing anything, or is this a bug?

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[manongjohn]

I am a familiar with the preference that allows frames and cell data to move together between columns, but not sure about within the same column.

When I was testing the flip, I checked that against an earlier release and didn't see that behavior within the same column before. Only when the preference was set and only when moving to a new column.

If moving cell data within the same column regardless of preference setting is a bug, it's odd that it only happens once in a while and not every time. I'll try and see if I can reproduce.

[manongjohn]

This isn't a bug.

If you press Ctrl before you make your cell selections, it will also select keys and will move them when you move the cells

Sometimes you have to press the Ctrl/Shift/Alts in the xsheet before you make selections in order for it to work as desired. If you made a selection and then tried to hit Ctrl/Shift/Alt afterwards, the effect you are going for may not always work.

[manongjohn]

However, I just discovered a bug with this feature due to the flip. Can't always move the selection into an empty area within the same column, where as you could before. Will find out what's wrong and fix.

[DarrenTAnims]

I can't move frames and keys at the same time. For me, this is the only behaviour I want. I NEVER want to move a drawing that has a key on it and NOT move the key. And I don't think other people do. Also, much of the time when I really need to move keys with frames is when I want to extend a sequence. So I click and drag across multiple columns and want to drag them (and all the following frames and keys) down a number of frames, so I can insert a pause or extra animation. This is such a painful thing to do when you have keys set up at different places on multiple columns.

[beeheemooth]

@DarrenTAnims You talking about this?

[DarrenTAnims]

It is, but on my system, the keys don't move! And I've got the Cell Dragging option to Cells and Column data (shown at the end of the clip)

[DarrenTAnims]

Right. Now I understand that you have to press CTRL BEFORE selecting. I can get this to work. But if I've set the option in prefs, it should move them without pressing CTRL.

Also, the CTRL option only works on frames you've drawn on. So, for instance, at the end of your clip, when the drawings have been moved to 13, you can click and drag across all columns at frame opentoonz/opentoonz#10, then a drag handle appears. If you click and drag that down, it'll move all of the drawn frames below it down, but not the keys. I think it should move both with that option set, too.

[beeheemooth]

@DarrenTAnims Your video does not work for some reason.

It seems to me that the options "Cells and Column data" or "Cell Only" have nothing to do with moving frames (I do not even know what they are for)

[beeheemooth]

@DarrenTAnims Use "Insert Frame" / "Delete Frame" function to move frames together with keys

[DarrenTAnims]

That's a great tip. Exactly what I wanted. I've just remapped my keyboard for Shift+Insert to do so.

[DarrenTAnims]

Many thanks to everyone for their tips. I can now do what I need to do to use the xsheet as I expect, but I believe this still should be fixed so that new users don't need to go through the same pain to learn, what should be, intuitive behaviour.

[snapai]

RAHBOOTS on the Discord has pointed out to us - "insert frames" always inserts frames on ALL unlocked columns, there doesn't seem to be a way to do this with just one column short of locking all others, and still having the keys move with the frames.

(also unrelated, any way to set github to allow mp4 or webm video here? That clip is 5MB but the mp4 was 500kb)

[gab3d]

I'll bring this back...

I think that either:

• The Cell-dragging Behavior option should also take care of moving keys along with cells inside their column. or
• There should be another specific option for always selecting keys along with column cells.

...what is clear is that this is expected behavior by anyone that works with other major graphics software, and there is also currently no UI hint that lets people that face this issue to discover it "the easy way", so there are big chances they end up thinking OT doesn't allow for such a basic task. What of course is bad... 🤔

[Nikhil-V-maker]

In Windows, initially hold Ctrl and select all the keys which you want to move along with frames. Don't leave the Ctrl, now press the first or last frame among the frames which you want to move, now along with Ctrl press shift and now click either last or first frame respectively, you can see all the frames as well as keys selected. Now press Ctrl+x to cut or Ctrl+c to copy and paste wherever you want.

[d01010101]

I am a new user. I use Linux, with all preferences set to default. "Insert frame" makes the function editor go out of sync with the frames. So, all blending etc. becomes a mess. Then, I can drag a small tab under a frame as an alternate way of inserting frames, but it makes even the keys go out of sync. I would like to add a new sequence at the beginning of the project, but I am afraid of ruining it, with everything going out of sync.

I asked elsewhere how to cleanly insert frames (as in, simply adding a pause). One of the simplest operations in a video editor, it seems. No answer for now.

[RodneyBaker]

As the original reported has ghosted themself this is a candidate for closer. However, as the report does collect quiet a lot of information for now we'll move to the Opentoonz-Docs repo.