Smart Grid functions - Githubissues

misko903 commented 3 years ago

are any Smart Grid functions planned? I have bought BRP069A61 and its crap. Using excessive energy from Photovoltaics works only when heating/cooling is off (not in standby), just because of missing room thermostat. It would be easy to switch heating just for 1/2 hour and then switch it back...

raomin commented 3 years ago

Hi! not sure what you expect by "Smart Grid functions" but I would imagine that the heating/cooling should be turned On when producing excessive energy. If you have this information on Home Assistant then it would be easy to trigger the heat pump through the external on/off thermostat acted by ESPAltherma. This would not trigger DHW if you have it.

misko903 commented 3 years ago

Hi, not really, because with Smart Grid Functions you are able to regulate the consumption of the heat pump. See this: https://www.daikin.eu/content/dam/document-library/Installer-reference-guide/ctrl/BRP069A61,%20BRP069A62_4PEN464229-1_2017_08_Installer%20reference%20guide_English.pdf Search for Smart Grid

raomin commented 3 years ago

OK I now understand that this the LAN adapter is able to limit the consumption of the heat pump to only the excessive energy. ESPAltherma cannot do this for now as it's only capable to act as a OnOff thermostat. So you could turn it On when you have excessive production but it might consume more than what you produce...

As BRP069A61 communicates on P1P2, the power limitation can probably be achieved with Arnold's P1P2Serial

Also if you have the Demand PCB option then it seems that you can easily set a specific power consumption limit. A 4 relay module and some additional code would then allow ESPAltherma to limit the power. Now there should also be a way to interface directly with the port X85A (to which the Demand PCB is interfaced with) but I couldn't find any information on this port. Maybe someone knows about this port...?

misko903 commented 3 years ago

The LAN adapter itself is not capable of using excessive energy. For that I need an extra electricity meter, which measures Outgoing energy, sending the signal to LAN adapter. Behaviour of the adapter is like:

listen on X1A/N+L contacts, if there is 230V. If yes, then:
listen on X1A/1+2 (SG0) and X2A/3+4 (SG1) if there is dry contact. Then:
if SG0 is ON, unit is in recommended ON mode. But only if heating/cooling is powered OFF (using Electricity meter signal, or static power limitation set on adapter's webpage)
if SG0 and SG1 is ON, the unit is in forced ON mode. No matter the heating, no matter the electricity meter, it is consuming as much as possible to stabilise the network (I am simulating this with simple manual switch, as I don't have real SG1 signal from my electricity provider)

It would be enough to make it this way:

when floor heating back water temp is on SET value, and SG0 is ON, it will switch OFF the heating (to take LAN Adaptor SG0 into account)
then the rest will do the LAN adaptor - heat water in boiler to its max value - 60deg (already programmed in LAN Adaptor, which is using S0 signal from electricity meter, or static SET value through web interface)
Once in 15 or 30 min is checked if the floor heating temp real value is corresponding to SET value
If real=SET, continue with with step 1

Or should I simply buy a stupid Thermostat which will switch off the heating, or I will wait until they improve the software on the LAN adapter? I am disappointed with the LAN adapter which I consider as an unfinished product.

miso

št 31. 12. 2020 o 22:38 Raomin notifications@github.com napísal(a):

OK I now understand that this the LAN adapter is able to limit the consumption of the heat pump to only the excessive energy. ESPAltherma cannot do this for now as it's only capable to act as a OnOff thermostat. So you could turn it On when you have excessive production but it might consume more than what you produce...

As BRP069A61 communicates on P1P2, the power limitation can probably be achieved with Arnold's P1P2Serial https://github.com/Arnold-n/P1P2Serial

Also if you have the Demand PCB option then it seems that you can easily set a specific power consumption limit. A 4 relay module and some additional code would then allow ESPAltherma to limit the power. Now there should also be a way to interface directly with the port X85A (to which the Demand PCB is interfaced with) but I couldn't find any information on this port. Maybe someone knows about this port...?

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andreapier commented 3 years ago

Hi, I am currently exploring how to integrate my PV interver with Altherma. I think it would be nice to manage it with ESPAltherma, so I only have 1 device that controls all aspects of HP.
My idea is to use a Shelly EM (or any other similar EM) and plug 2 clamps. 1st clamp measures PV production. 2nd clamp measures total building consumption.
I send those values to appropriate ESPAltherma's channels and use them to command 2 pins. Those 2 pins will in turn command 2 relays that will open/close SG0/SG1 dry contacts.

Parameters

I came up with this data and algorithm to set SG mode, please give advise if you think it could be improved:	Parameter	Description	Direction
Delta_SG_3	Power consumption of unit when in SG3 mode	Fixed constant, known at compile time	Source code
Produced_Power	Power produced by PV	Input	/ESPAltherma/em/Production
Consumed_Power	Power consumed by building	Input	/ESPAltherma/em/Consumption
SG_Mode	Current SG working mode	Output	/ESPAltherma/em/SG_Mode
Consumed_Power_HP	Power consumed by HP	Internal	Calculated ad V*A from already available channels
T_DHW	Current DHW temperature	Internal	From already available channels
S_DHW_SG0	DHW setpoint in SG0 operation	Internal	From already available channels
S_DHW_SG3	DHW setpoint in SG3 operation	Internal	From already available channels

Algorithm

IF Produced_Power - Consumed_Power >= Delta_SG_3 - Consumed_Power_HP THEN //This IF tries to prevent to consume more energy than what is being produced.
  IF T_DHW <= S_DHW_SG3 THEN  // Only switch to SG3 mode if set temperature is not reached yet
    SG_Mode = 3
    PIN_SG1 = HIGH
    PIN_SG2 = HIGH
  ELSE
    SG_Mode = 2      // Otherwise, switch to SG2 mode, to try to maximize floor heating
    PIN_SG1 = HIGH
    PIN_SG2 = LOW
ELSE IF Produced_Power - Consumed_Power >= 0 THEN // Only switch to SG2 mode if there is enough energy (this could be improved using a Delta_SG_2
  SG_Mode = 2
  PIN_SG1 = HIGH
  PIN_SG2 = LOW
ELSE  // If not power is left, set normal operation mode SG0
  SG_Mode = 0

Possible improvements

Set a threshold for SG 2 mode, eg. Delta_SG_2 (same to SG 3 mode). I didn't currently considered this only for the sake of simplicity, and also because I don't know how to find a reasonable value.
Add a SG_Working_Mode_Auto parameter: if true, ESPAltherma works as described. Else, go in "manual mode" where SG_Mode is commanded from an external device. This could help users that already have some kind of SG Ready controller and only want ESPAltherma to control relays. It is doable, but I think it's better to wait for feedback to be sure it is something actually useful
I did not consider SG 1 mode (forced OFF). This is by design as I think there is no valid reason to risk a user's comfort. If a user really wants to switch Altherma OFF, and we agree to implement manual mode, he could explicitly command an SG_Mode = 0 through some other control system

Questions

1st question is of course: @raomin do you think this is a valuable feature for ESPAltherma? I would be pleased to implement it and upstream to your repo, but only if you like the idea. I will gladly accept a "no" and still respect and admire your work. 2nd question is for feedback. Please tell me what you think and if you see any problem with my proposal

raomin commented 3 years ago

Hi @andreapier, thanks for your feedback and constructive proposal!

In my designs for home automation I always tend to consider the ESP as actuators or sensors, the thinking part (balancing, sensor based decision, etc...) should come from the home automation hub (HA, jeedom, node-red etc...). That means ESPAltherma would manage 2 extra output GPIOs for SG0/SG1 relays and would monitor MQTT for that (as it does currently for the external thermostat). And the decision would be based on the values your home automation hub is receiving from the different sensors (ESPAlthetrma, Shelly EM etc...). That would ensure an easy monitoring, adaptability of the solution to other cases, etc...

Obviously, adding 2 MQTT switches on ESPAltherma would not be an issue. I was considering adding 4 and hooking to the X85A for those (like me) who do not have BRP069A61.

Tell me what you think.

misko903 commented 3 years ago

BRP069A61 is crap. I have it at home and it is not working correctly since weeks. They promised to work it with electricity meter, but forget it. Even SG0 processing is not working reliable. Using it with SolarEdge Zigbee Dry Contact switch.

miso

št 4. 2. 2021 o 22:02 Raomin notifications@github.com napísal(a):

Hi @andreapier https://github.com/andreapier, thanks for your feedback and constructive proposal!

In my designs for home automation I always tend to consider the ESP as actuators or sensors, the thinking part (balancing, sensor based decision, etc...) should come from the home automation hub (HA, jeedom, node-red etc...). That means ESPAltherma would manage 2 extra output GPIOs for SG0/SG1 relays and would monitor MQTT for that (as it does currently for the external thermostat). And the decision would be based on the values your home automation hub is receiving from the different sensors (ESPAlthetrma, Shelly EM etc...). That would ensure an easy monitoring, adaptability of the solution to other cases, etc...

Obviously, adding 2 MQTT switches on ESPAltherma would not be an issue. I was considering adding 4 and hooking to the X85A for those (like me) who do not have BRP069A61.

Tell me what you think.

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KalaNagHTD commented 3 years ago

https://www.daikin.eu/en_us/products/BRP069A78.html

andreapier commented 3 years ago

Tell me what you think.

Well, your considerations make perfect sense.
Having an integrated solution could be easier for users, but at the end it would probably be better for them to separate logic and IO as you suggest.

raomin commented 3 years ago

Thanks @andreapier for this. I believe it's a great addition to ESPAltherma for every owners of compatible HP.

I still need to figure out how to port this to Altherma3 which has nowhere SG1/SG2 ports, only through the lan adapter, or through the ondemand pcb which looks like just a bunch of optocoupler ending on the X85A port. I'll start playing with this port to see how the HP behaves.

raomin commented 3 years ago

Now that @andreapier's code is merged, I'll close this issue. I'll reopen one if I manage to hack the X85A to directly connect with 2 extra relays.

raomin / ESPAltherma

Smart Grid functions #3

Parameters

Algorithm

Possible improvements

Questions