revvv / gdash-export-CrLi

GDash with new features
MIT License
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Impassable caves #33

Open renyxadarox opened 1 year ago

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

Hi folks!

Here I propose to report the impassable cavesets you found in GDash /caves:

After someone's confirmation, we can somehow fix such cavesets and publish them next to the original caveset with the "_fixed" suffix, for example. Or replace it by the corrected version if we decide it makes more sense.

What do you think about this?

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

As the first few impassable caves: Сaves without exits: /caves/Alex_Zop/Rocky_Rockano_in_Lolli_Land_01.gds - Cave 09 /caves/Alex_Zop/Rockford_in_Nimmerland_2.gds - Cave 04 /caves/Alex_Zop/Rockford_in_Nimmerland_2.gds - Cave 20 /caves/Alex_Zop/Rockford_in_Nimmerland_2.gds - Cave 21

Btw, C64 game the cavesets imported from has two names: Rocki Rockano in Lolli Land 01 and : Rocki im Lolliland image Atari game also has a name Rocki im Lolliland: image I tried to play one of the original Atari games and didn't find any exists in that cave. May it be the caves have some third type of exit, neither visible, nor invisible, but during conversion they were replaced by some steel wall?

cwscws commented 1 year ago

I already told you - coordinate your work with Dustin

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

https://github.com/revvv/gdash-export-CrLi/pull/35 fixed Alex Zop caves

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

The original Arno Dash 21 - Cave M is an impassable because of extremely fast growing amoeba: https://youtu.be/E34aVwE7M-0 That's why Arno Dash 21 Remake was made: https://youtu.be/RrVx7QizYqY

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

May it be the caves have some third type of exit, neither visible, nor invisible, but during conversion they were replaced by some steel wall?

Looks like now I know answer to this question. It seems that originally the outboxes were installed in first or last line of the caves. However, BorderProperties.scan=false cave property prevents to scan the first and the lst lines, thus these caves were impassable after importing to Atari and C64. After revert import from Atari or C64, the outboxes were missed, of course.

patched the fix :) removed BorderProperties.scan=false

revvv commented 1 year ago

The original Arno Dash 21 - Cave M is an impassable because of extremely fast growing amoeba: https://youtu.be/E34aVwE7M-0 That's why Arno Dash 21 Remake was made: https://youtu.be/RrVx7QizYqY

I added Arno Dash 21 a while ago. I had to modify some caves to be playable, but Cave M was playable w/o changes. You changed a lot of settings in this cave. Now it's unplayable, indeed. IHMO The remake was made, because krissz' engine supports wrap around w/o line shift. I commented my changes and did not flatten the caves, so one could see what I have changed. All gone.

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

@revvv I just renamed Arno_Dash_21.bd as Arno_Dash_21_remake.bd and added the original Arno Dash 21 (with unplayable Cave M) as Arno_Dash_21.bd. Unfortunately Github didn't catch these simple changes and shows a lot of changes in Arno_Dash_21.bd

revvv commented 1 year ago

I imported Arno Dash 21 from his homepage, so I guess this was the latest version...

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

Ok, we can agree to keep only one, the latest (remaked, fixed, patched) version of cavesets and do not keep previous versions.

If yes, we should delete /caves/Alex_Zop/Rockford_in_Nimmerland_2.gds /caves/Alex_Zop/Rocki_Rockano_in_Lolli_Land_01.gds /caves/CoolshakerUnionGangKG/Quolder_Dash_15.gds /caves/CoolshakerUnionGangKG/Quolder_Dash_16.gds /caves/CoolshakerUnionGangKG/Quolder_Dash_25.gds /caves/Schlonkel/The_Lost_Caves_3.gds together with rename /caves/Alex_Zop/Rockford_in_Nimmerland_2_fixed.bd as Rockford_in_Nimmerland_2.bd /caves/Alex_Zop/Rocki_Rockano_in_Lolli_Land_01_fixed.bd as Rocki_Rockano_in_Lolli_Land_01.bd /caves/CoolshakerUnionGangKG/Quolder_Dash_15_Fixed.gds as Quolder_Dash_15.gds /caves/CoolshakerUnionGangKG/Quolder_Dash_16_Fixed.gds as Quolder_Dash_16.gds /caves/CoolshakerUnionGangKG/Quolder_Dash_25_Fixed.gds as Quolder_Dash_25.gds /caves/Schlonkel/The_Lost_Caves_3_with_hidden.gds as The_Lost_Caves_3.gds

If no, please explain your vision, when it makes sense to keep different version of same caveset.

revvv commented 1 year ago

Yes, please remove duplicates!

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

Yes, please remove duplicates!

https://github.com/revvv/gdash-export-CrLi/pull/38

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

Almost impassable caves: /caves/Arno_Weber/Future_Dash Cave 08 -- I guess the cave is passable only by TAS (tool-assisted speedrun) Cave 09 -- the cave contains 8 butterflies and 80 diamonds required, that means missing ones diamonds could be extracted only from blocked amoeba, but it grows very fast, so only good luck can help.

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

No exit: /caves/Atarakushi/Ataraxy_Dash_001.bd - Cave 09

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

No exit: /caves/Atarakushi/Ataraxy_Dash_001.bd - Cave 09

Fixed by https://github.com/revvv/gdash-export-CrLi/commit/897ead563d2a0c30585c574aea0af64e7dc614d6#diff-1186e0e119647709fc84321aeba8ef76a6725948e1b1c8d4538fcdbba5c4e2ccR570-R573 placing Outbox in position (19, 6) .

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

/caves/Bert_Bogger/Boulder_Dash_Pro_1995.gds - Cave 41 It seems there isn't enough AmoebaGrowthProb to complete the cave in time. Or, maybe, need to increase CaveTime to be able to complete the cave.

I tried several times, the amoeba grows very slow, and there is no other source for the 98 required diamonds: https://youtu.be/wlOUaTRaHGw

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

/caves/Add_and_TKR Intermissions 20 in all 5 games seem to have been added for decoration only, all of them have no Inboxes and Outboxes: Full cave view: image Cave visible area: image Cave Element Statistics: image

BTW, cave Element statistics counts only visible area elements. Sometimes intermission caves can be extended to a full cave and it is impossible to complete the cave without knowing what lies beyond the visible area. For instance: /Arno_Dash/Arno_Dash_17.bd - Intermission 05: Full cave view: image Cave visible area: image Cave Element Statistics: image

Not a big deal, just FYI. Maybe we could add Full cave Elements statistics together with Visible area Elements statistics? Not an issue, just my idea.

revvv commented 1 year ago

it is impossible to complete the cave without knowing what lies beyond the visible area

This was done by intention! IHMO It's a creative idea: You have to hear your moves carefully and find the exit in time! Try it. It's possible!

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

ADD & TKR Boulderdash E. Cave 02 requires 50 diamonds, initially the cave contains 51 diamonds, but after firefly explosion only 49 remain: https://youtu.be/ivdN1Xw4xkI Maybe the firefly needs to change direction?

P.S.: Firefly direction Up helps to save all 51 diamonds: https://youtu.be/BvzlHYk0VFU

revvv commented 1 year ago

It wasn't me: I never changed firefly directions ;-)

Just change it in the .bd file. (And do not flatten, so that the edit is documented)

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

ADD & TKR Boulderdash E. Intermission 09 image Diamonds needed 20

I don't think it's possible at all to collect 20 diamonds, only 19 I can.

cwscws commented 1 year ago

Hmmm. Maybe an error of the author. If possible, fix it.

And many many thanx for your extrem efforts to test all games and post videos of it on YouTube! :) 👍

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

Maybe an error of the author. If possible, fix it.

Fixed it this way: https://youtu.be/oeHkZ5zJ-PI

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

62 fixed caves\ADD_and_TKR\Boulderdash_E.bd

revvv commented 1 year ago

Maybe we could add Full cave Elements statistics together with Visible area Elements statistics?

IMHO it bloats up the statistics overview. Just change the visible area temporarily.

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

Just change the visible area temporarily.

How can I do that?

revvv commented 1 year ago

Tools -> Set visible region

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

Offtopic: /caves/Boulder_Rush_cave_pack/Gods.gds Cave 06 = Cave 01 Cave 07 = Cave 02 Cave 08 = Cave 03 Cave 09 = Cave 04 Intermission 10 = Intermission 05.

I would actually reduce the caveset to 5 unique caves.

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

/caves/Boulder_Rush_cave_pack/Miscellaneous.gds Cave 12: No Enter, No Exit Cave 25: Diamonds needed = 1000. Impossible Cave 33: Non-scanable Exit. The cave can be fixed, but the caveset "Miscellaneous" is experimental, so I don't think any fixes would make sense. Intermission 39: No Enter, No Exit, needed 1000 diamonds. Cave 40: No Enter, No Exit, needed 1000 diamonds. Cave 43: Non-scanable Hidden Exit.

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

/caves/Boulder_Rush_cave_pack/Stefan_Schneider.gds Cave 02 The firefly kills Rockford at birth: https://youtu.be/5Y4iMdZmGjs

In fact, on Atari for such kind of caves there is a trick to press Space, freeze the game for a few ms and release it by Space again. I don't know what's going on, but after that the time interval to Rockford birth changes a bit, the trick seems to add a few frames (from 1 to ~5). The firefly manages to hit the Enter and bounce in the backward direction.

There are several caves on Atari that definitely require knowning this trick, otherwise they are impassable. I tried to repeat this trick in GDash, it seems the trick is absent here. I have a feeling that this cave requires such kind of trick. Could anyone check the cave on C64?

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

/caves/Boulder_Rush_cave_pack/Stefan_Schneider.gds Cave 10 image image I'm pretty sure these 2 last diamonds are unreachable: https://youtu.be/psxFjjYa5Pc image

renyxadarox commented 1 year ago

/caves/Boulderwilli/Marathon_Dash/Marathon_Dash_Part_2.bd Cave 34 Diamonds needed = 66 Only 65 diamonds available. No magic walls, no butterflies, no amoeba: image https://youtu.be/yY3MYnf_PEE

renyxadarox commented 11 months ago

/caves/UStar23/Boulderdash-UX-2.bd Cave i The amoeba grows very fast, so the cave is almost impassable. 1 chance from 10 that the passage remains open, but even if it happens it's very difficult to collect 120 diamonds from remained overhanging stones. I don't say that it is impossible at all... but it needs overskills to extract so many diamonds from each left stone/diamond. image

renyxadarox commented 11 months ago

/caves/UStar23/Boulderdash-UX-2.bd Cave s It seems Effect=BOMBEXPLOSIONeffect SPACE is absent for that cave and the only bomb available for Rockford by default transfrorms to... the walls! image

renyxadarox commented 10 months ago

/caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash_07.gds Intermission 10 image

It seems the cave was designed to explode fireflies (at least one of them) when the amoeba growths, but butterflies explode first, so no chance to penetrate out the wall.

renyxadarox commented 9 months ago

/caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Quolder_Dash_15.gds Intermission 04 image It seems the cave was designed so that some fireflies had to have a different direction to prevent them from exploding when the crystals fell.

renyxadarox commented 9 months ago

/caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Quolder_Dash_15.gds Intermission 07 image Looks like a joke =)

revvv commented 9 months ago

Thanks. As always: Fix the .bd files, preserving the .gds files.

renyxadarox commented 9 months ago

Thanks. As always: Fix the .bd files, preserving the .gds files.

I'm not sure anyone would want to play the original gds caves. The original .gds Intermission 07 cave: image

revvv commented 9 months ago

You can press F2 for random color change.

renyxadarox commented 9 months ago

You can press F2 for random color change.

Sometimes changing the color scheme becomes a bit of a cheat ))

renyxadarox commented 9 months ago

caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Quolder_Dash_16.gds Cave 01 https://youtu.be/xlF_X4ptxRw I have no idea how they were going to collect 83 diamonds. Only if fireflies explode as diamonds? image

renyxadarox commented 9 months ago

caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Quolder_Dash_16.gds Cave 02 The same story. Looks like some non-standard effects were lost when converting caves to gds. image

renyxadarox commented 9 months ago

caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Quolder_Dash_16.gds Intermission 04 image

renyxadarox commented 8 months ago

caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Quolder_Dash_23.gds Cave 06 I can't get out the trap. image

renyxadarox commented 7 months ago

caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Quolder_Dash_27.gds Cave 01 Dies from the very start. image

renyxadarox commented 7 months ago

caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Quolder_Dash_31.gds Caves 03, 04, 09, 10 12, 13, 19, 20 contain unknown element that is supposed to form diamonds when in contact with b-/f-flies, but in the GDash it is represented as a growing steel wall.

renyxadarox commented 6 months ago

caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Crazy_Dash_1.gds Cave 14 image I have no idea what the author meant to start with.

renyxadarox commented 6 months ago

caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Crazy_Dash_1.gds Cave 01 image Unknown for me physics has to be applied to collect the diamonds.

renyxadarox commented 6 months ago

caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Crazy_Dash_1.gds Intermission 15 image I'm far from thinking the cave is passable. Looks like a joke.

renyxadarox commented 6 months ago

caves/Coolshaker_Union_Gang_KG/Quolder_Dash/Crazy_Dash_1.gds Cave 16 image I'm far from thinking anybody can lock amoeba, the only source of diamonds there.