jobbautista9
commented
3 years ago That's a good idea. They have been using diversity as a weapon against us. Now it's time that it backfires against them.
Open 6r1d opened 3 years ago
jobbautista9
commented
3 years ago That's a good idea. They have been using diversity as a weapon against us. Now it's time that it backfires against them.
nukeop
commented
3 years ago Focusing on "diversity" is a meaningless distraction, and being less or more "diverse" doesn't really mean anything. It dilutes the message of the group by drawing attention to something unrelated. Even though we could, it's good that we don't play this game of diversity olympics as though diversity was not only good by a goal in itself.
Another thing is that I think this matter is pretty much closed, and we should no longer be commenting or spending energy on discussing it any further. If there are new, continued attacks, we can then take some time to handle those.
CrazyPython
commented
3 years ago Most developers now believe Stallman any anyone who supports him is sexist. I have not seen a single person with more than 200 followers on my Twitter feed support RMS. Most of them have condemned him for sexism.
The pro-RMS side is arguably more diverse, considering all the articles of support on stallmansupport.org are from women.
6r1d
commented
3 years ago though diversity was not only good by a goal in itself
Well, as I understood it, it's about the split of the community. And if we show we're more accepting, maybe using a different rhetoric, this can help fix some things.
Will many see it and change their opinion? I don't know, because most of the active days are in the past. There are miriads of sites and people generally spend little time on a page.
I won't be surprised if a couple videos on YouTube by well-known people will lead to the result this site will acheive in yeard.
I have not seen a single person with more than 200 followers on my Twitter feed support RMS
Peer pressure is a big issue. Someone might have researched the facts, many probably did, but at the same time, openly supporting RMS in an anti-RMS group means losing followers, connections, etc.
Also, a thing to be optimistic about: you've probably visited a lot of people who don't support RMS and Twitter might've changed your feed.
nukeop
commented
3 years ago Most developers now believe Stallman any anyone who supports him is sexist. I have not seen a single person with more than 200 followers on my Twitter feed support RMS. Most of them have condemned him for sexism.
The pro-RMS side is arguably more diverse, considering all the articles of support on stallmansupport.org are from women.
And? You can't believe an idea is right unless it's supported by people with high twitter follower count?
CrazyPython
commented
3 years ago And? You can't believe an idea is right unless it's supported by people with high twitter follower count?
The low twitter follower account people didn't say anything, except for people I specifically followed because they were pro-RMS.
That people with a high twitter follower account condemn him indicates that most people agree with the idea that RMS is sexist.
you've probably visited a lot of people who don't support RMS and Twitter might've changed your feed.
Maybe, but I'm skeptical because all of the famous SWEs I follow–of all genders and races– condemned RMS.
nukeop
commented
3 years ago That people with a high twitter follower account condemn him indicates that most people agree with the idea that RMS is sexist.
Absolutely not. People with high twitter followe count are probably less than 0.1% of population.
CrazyPython
commented
3 years ago Absolutely not. People with high twitter followe count are probably less than 0.1% of population.
People with a high twitter follower account reflect their beliefs, and the beliefs of the people who follow them.
Some portion of people in silicon valley use twitter. Their attitudes propagate to the wider software industry.
samboy
commented
3 years ago I don’t think it’s most people. If it were most people, Debian would had voted to condemn RMS, but they didn’t.
It looks pretty split from where I stand. I think some cliques who spend too much time on Twitter who condemned RMS, but there were some notable supporters too (Dan Kaminski, RIP, for example).
6r1d
commented
3 years ago I don’t think it’s most people. If it were most people, Debian would had voted to condemn RMS, but they didn’t.
It's not a simple vote for "yes" or "no", but instead a rather complicated process. There was a part of Debian that was against hurting Richard further. It wasn't about leadership in Free Software for them. Moreover, Debian's general decision is not to issue a statement.
Debian vote result on Richard's return.
Bryan Lunduke's comments.
Dan Kaminski, RIP
RIP. It's sad to hear that.
samboy
commented
3 years ago Well, if it’s a simple head count, your letter had 5,000 votes to around 3,000 votes for the anti-RMS letter when they gave up and stopped adding new signatures. So, unless there’s evidence of bot activity, there are more people signing this letter than the other one.
(I should probably clarify that my position is a general attitude that serious accusations should not be based on half truths and downright lies like “RMS supported Epstein”, which is a classic case of “Drumhead justice” — “Decisions were quick, punishments severe, appeals denied. Those who came to a drumhead were doomed.” It is not an endorsement of every last posting RMS ever made on his blog.)
There was a proposal by @CrazyPython I'm copying: make a site called "diverse-free-software" as an addition to Stallmansupport to:
In my opinion, it can help, because some people ignore "stallmansupport.org" just because it's called that way. It will help a bit, because more people will know what we actually do and thing, showing we're a side that's more accepting to other people and their opinions.
While the situation died down, some negativity remains and it can help put out the fires.