Allowing for different initial Font Size (or Zoom level) for Editor and Console

[vasselai]

It totally makes sense that if one wants to zoom in for all files, one should just change the font size in the preferences. The problem, however, is that Spyder does not allow anymore one to define different font sizes for Editor and Console. The consequence is that if one uses Spyder in a big wide monitor and wants to increase the Editor's font accordingly, the font for the console becomes just huge.

Sure thing, there is a work-around that. Whenever I start Spyder, I go there to the console and Zoom out with Ctrl -. That is exactly what made me come here to talk about this: I thought that if the program allows me to zoom in or out the font size to different levels in the console and in the editor, it could be easy-ish to allow them have different levels at the start state.

So, here is my feature request: that Spyder let users define font size and family independently for editor and console. Another option, of course, would be to have "zoom level" as a different parameter from "font size", such that "zoom level" could be defined independently for editor and console.

Could you guys consider a way of solving that? Thanks!

PS: this issue ticket follows the suggestion that I should bring to a new ticket the discussion that I started in #2420.

[jnsebgosselin]

I propose we remove the font size section in General and put one instead in Editor and IPython console. IMO, font size in General should not be related to the font of the Editor and the IPython console, but to the font of the UI (which could also be a valid option for Spyder).

[goanpeca]

@jnsebgosselin we had that some time ago, but we wanted to have a more simple UI. Spyder preferences gives too many options and we did not wanted to have that. We may reevaluate it.

[jnsebgosselin]

Thank you @goanpeca for the feedback. I'm by no means an expert in UI designing, so it is just my two cents here.

From a user perspective, I believe that having less preferences is not necessarily related to a simpler or more streamlined UI. Spyder is a IDE, so I think that for that kind of software, there should be plenty of options for users to make their development environment to be as much as they wish it to be.

As for this particular case, I think having a font section under the General tab is more confusing to the user than it helps to simplify the UI. With the current setup, I would expect that changing the font size, would also affect the menus, buttons, tool-tips, etc... (like it does in other software of this type), not only the Editor and the IPython console.

[vasselai]

Thanks @jnsebgosselin for your insights on this and @goanpeca for your feedback.

Here is my take on this. I am all for clean and minimalist UIs. I always get rid of tool-bars and menus and maximize software as much as possible. I love distraction-free modes. However, zoom level or font size sounds like a pretty fundamental thing. First, as I said, because of the popularization of big wide monitors. Hack, sometimes I even work in a 55'' TV. Second, because of visually impaired users. Being able to make the editor look bigger without having the console look insanely enormous is, for me, more than aesthetics - more like a usability thing, really.

Anyways, I really appreciate you all taking it into consideration and will be looking forward to hearing more about your thoughts on the designs of this beautiful software.

[ccordoba12]

there should be plenty of options for users to make their development environment to be as much as they wish it to be.

We have been removing lots of (useless) options during the last years because it's very confusing when you have too many of them.

That was Pierre's inheritance (Spyder's original author), and something @goanpeca and me disagree strongly.

With the current setup, I would expect that changing the font size, would also affect the menus, buttons, tool-tips, etc

Those font sizes are controlled by the OS, and I think that's clear for most people.

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Truth is I really don't know how to fix this, sorry.

[ccordoba12]

I mean, if we add a way to set the IPython console font independently, then we should do the same for the rest of plugins, and we don't want to go down that path.

[jnsebgosselin]

This issue does not affect me, I only use one monitor :P I'm merely just brainstorming here so that maybe I can be of any help to find a solution to this "problem".

With the current setup, I would expect that changing the font size, would also affect the menus, buttons, tool-tips, etc

Those font sizes are controlled by the OS, and I think that's clear for most people.

A lot of software offer this option. If I recall, Matlab IDE did back in the days when I used it. I mean, I'm not saying its a useful or a good option. What I'm saying is that, since I've seen this option in numerous other software under the General tab, that is the behaviour I was expecting when I saw this first in Spyder before I tested it.

Currently, there is no way to know by looking at the Fonts section in the preferences, without testing it, what part of the UI this option affect. Maybe a tooltip, or a short description, or a more explicit title like Text fonts or Plugin text fonts could help with that.

I mean, if we add a way to set the IPython console font independently, then we should do the same for the rest of plugins, and we don't want to go down that path.

Yeah, you are right... I haven't thought about that with that angle. I'll continue to think about this and see if I can come up with a better solution.

[jnsebgosselin]

Maybe this problem is not up to Spyder to solve. Maybe it is more of a set-a-different-DPI-or-text-size-on-each-monitor issue, which is more an OS issue.

For example: https://superuser.com/questions/29796

[vasselai]

Maybe this problem is not up to Spyder to solve. Maybe it is more of a set-a-different-DPI-or-text-size-on-each-monitor issue, which is more an OS issue.

That applies only to dual monitors, not to one big monitor or to when text size has to be increase for accessibility. That is, it does not relate to the original issue so it does not solve the problem.

We have been removing lots of (useless) options during the last years because it's very confusing when you have too many of them.

That was Pierre's inheritance (Spyder's original author), and something @goanpeca and me disagree strongly.

IMHO I don't see how that couldn't be solved the same way many software have solved such problem in the past: by having the crowded options interface be... also optional (e.g. what some software call "advanced mode". But I digress, I am not particularly interested in solving that or in having many more customization options. Quite on the contrary. My take on this is that while I agree with the philosophy of keeping customization options on the few size (at least if no advanced mode is available), exceptions might be needed - and making it less repetitive to do something I need to do all the time I open Spyder sounds important to me.

Nevertheless, despite of any eventual changes, I am happy that I enacted a debate on this.

EDIT: I simplified the post, which was unnecessarily long.

[jnsebgosselin]

@vasselai Thanks for your insights and idea. I think this is a very interesting topic.

Maybe this problem is not up to Spyder to solve. Maybe it is more of a set-a-different-DPI-or-text-size-on-each-monitor issue, which is more an OS issue.

That applies only to dual monitors, not to one big monitor or to when text size has to be increase for accessibility. That is, it does not relate to the original issue so it does not solve the problem.

I'm not sure I understand your point here. If you need the text size to be increased for accessibility purpose, then why wouldn't you want the font size to be the same in the console and in the editor? If you can't see well the text in the editor, you won't in the console either? Would you agree to post a screenshot of your setup please? That would help to better understand the issue here.

Besides, @ccordoba12 has a point. This issue also applies to all other editor vs any-other-spyder-plugin. To be consistent, we would also have to add an option for the Help, Internal console, History, notebook, etc. We could do this by adding a combobox to the Fonts section that would allow to select the plugin for which we want the font to be changed. An entry with "Change text font for all plugins" could also be added to the combobox. Seems like simple enough. This would not make the preferences interface more crowded and it has the benefit of telling the user what he is really changing with this option.

[jnsebgosselin]

making it less repetitive to do something I need to do all the time I open Spyder sounds important to me.

Maybe the zoom level for each plugin/tab should be saved in the spyder.ini? This way we would solve the problem while not adding a single option to the preferences interface. For example, Chrome remember the zoom level of every page I had opened in my last session.

[ccordoba12]

Maybe the zoom level for each plugin/tab should be saved in the spyder.ini?

This is a very good idea! I was also thinking around this line.

@goanpeca?

[goanpeca]

Maybe the zoom level for each plugin/tab should be saved in the spyder.ini?

Sure, but if we are doing this, we should have some way of resetting it

[vasselai]

I guess that suggestion would be a pretty good way of handling the issue, and if needed, in the future it might even open a great venue for more user customization while cleaning the UI even more.

[dan31]

@jnsebgosselin we had that some time ago, but we wanted to have a more simple UI. Spyder preferences gives too many options and we did not wanted to have that. We may reevaluate it.

Truly sad. One of the things I needed for comfortable work is large font in the code editor but normal size and different font in the console. Now I can only have this in PyCharm.

[ccordoba12]

@dan31, you can increase the font size in the console with Ctrl +. The only problem is that it's not permanent between Spyder restarts.

[goanpeca]

@jnsebgosselin would you like to give us a hand with this one?