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tomeshnet / tomesh.net

Website for Toronto Mesh
https://tomesh.net
GNU General Public License v3.0
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Mesh Picnic Event #230

Closed dasanchez closed 6 years ago

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

I am opening an issue to start a discussion around the Picnic event- if anyone can suggest a better place for this, I'm all ears 😄

Here is what we have discussed so far:

Mesh Picnic

Date: 2018 September 29 Time: 13:00-16:00 Location: FreeGeek and the adjacent courtyard

Attendees

Activities

IPFS Demo

Lead: @makeworld-the-better-one

Required supplies

Proof-of-concept "long-range" connection

Lead: @darkdrgn2k

Required supplies (see diagram below)

Computer breakdown workshop

Lead: @ryan-fgt

Required supplies

FreeGeek Sale

Lead: @ryan-fgt

Promo material

Refreshments

ryan-fgt commented 6 years ago

Everything for the computer breakdown can be supplied by Free Geek. We have cameras and computers available.

Also have some extension cords as well.

darkdrgn2k commented 6 years ago

Proof-of-concept "long-range" connection

Revision 1

Feed back welcome

image

Requirements

Other possible goals - Thoughts?

makew0rld commented 6 years ago

I should be able to go. As for the IPFS demo, I can definitely lead that, I'll start programming it soon. I plan on using python with a webserver (probably flask), and creating a site where you can upload a file, which will then be added to IPFS, and broadcast over IPNS with pubsub. A second site on a second node is continually refreshing that IPNS key, and when the content changes from the last time, it will display the new file. Ideally this would be restricted to image files, as they are the easiest to see, and the best for demos. The .tomesh TLD running off of my server and the pis will be used for easier access to Site 1 and 2. @darkdrgn2k , I have questions for you about how IPNS with pubsub would work in this scenario, as I know you have been having issues with it for mesh-stream.

@ryan-fgt Will those extension cords be enough for 3 or more pis, if we attach power bars? Or were you thinking of a different use?

@dasanchez One thing I think you forgot is that for all these demos, meshing is required, and that requires USB WiFi, 802.11s adapters. I know @darkdrgn2k has some, would he be willing to supply them? Who else has some for us to use? Are there enough?

Edit: @darkdrgn2k informs me that pubsub is not necessary because no NATing will be going on. Also none of the nodes doing this demo should be providing internet access, as that will affect IPNS resolution and publishing.

ryan-fgt commented 6 years ago

@makeworld-the-better-one We've got lots of different power bars and extension cords so we should be good.

makew0rld commented 6 years ago

Also, I wonder if it might make sense to suppress the Access Points of the other nodes not providing internet to make the UX easier. If the demand is too much, then maybe we want one or two others, one for the IPFS demo perhaps. Is there an easy way to temporarily turn off node APs? Should just be something like sudo systemctl stop hostapd right?

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

@darkdrgn2k that setup diagram looks great! That's pretty much how I had modeled it in my head. Re: people available to talk to the passersby- we can put the IPFS demo on hold while we do the long-range test, that way both @makeworld-the-better-one and I can be there to answer questions. I like the idea of a live feed outside that the people at FreeGeek can access- as long as it's not too much hassle to deploy :wink:

@makeworld-the-better-one I'm really excited about the web client for IPFS! Let me know if I can help in any way...even if it's just testing it. Have you looked around the web to see if there are existing projects you can use as reference?

Re: 802.11s dongles: I have exactly one dongle and a handful more on order from Alibaba, but I doubt they will come in before that weekend. I'll check the stock at Canada Computers and report back.

makew0rld commented 6 years ago

we can put the IPFS demo on hold while we do the long-range test

@dasanchez We can put it on hold while internet being set up right? After that everyone that was helping set it up will be available to help as well. I think it's good to run multiple demos at the same time, ie internet and IPFS.

web client for IPFS!

You're giving me too much credit :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:. I was just thinking a simple upload interface, with a display interface on another node. If I have time I'll try and add more features. A full web interface for IPFS is very important for the nodes to have I think, but what I'm doing here will probably only serve as a demo. I'll definitely ask you for help later, at least with testing.

existing projects

There is the IPFS web UI, but that is way too much for what I am thinking. Tell me if you see anything though!

Also, I am wondering about how to show the more notable features of IPFS. I will talk about them, but the demo I've mentioned above just shows file transfer. But IPFS's most important feature is probably how you can download files and serve them in a decentralized way. A simple way to show this might be to just have a 3rd node that displays files on a delay, and talk about how this node could have gotten the file from 1 or 2, or both of those nodes at once. But that's still a lot of talk, and not much demo. If you have any ideas for how to do that, it would be appreciated. Of course the first thing is just to get file transfer working, I shouldn't get ahead of myself lol.

Re: 802.11s dongles: I have exactly one dongle and a handful more on order from Alibaba, but I doubt they will come in before that weekend. I'll check the stock at Canada Computers and report back.

@darkdrgn2k ?

darkdrgn2k commented 6 years ago

Re: people available to talk to the passersby- we can put the IPFS demo on hold while we do the long-range test, that way both @makeworld-the-better-one and I can be there to answer questions.

If we have enough people the outside node being the "bait" for them to be directed inside.

I like the idea of a live feed outside that the people at FreeGeek can access- as long as it's not too much hassle to deploy 😉

I don't see it being a big problem to deploy. Another idea is to reverse it. Stream inside free geek out into the park to get people interested whats inside? I dont know.

Re: 802.11s dongles

Canada Computer is all v2 and v3 for the 3 stores i checked so no joy there. I have a bunch of the Workshop dongles as well as my stock of the 2.5 ghz ones so i think we will be ok depending how many we need.

darkdrgn2k commented 6 years ago

Also, I wonder if it might make sense to suppress the Access Points

There wont be allot of APs providing internet outside. I'm also was not planning on using a pi there but rather have a bit bulkier access point that can have a decent range. Regardless outside wont be an issue.

Are you thinking of having internet inside as well?

ryan-fgt commented 6 years ago

One idea - should everyone speaking to the public should wear a similar mesh-related t-shirt?

If people don't have one of those, I could lend them a Free Geek t-shirt for the day. Matching clothing gives a sense of legitimacy,

darkdrgn2k commented 6 years ago

Also none of the nodes doing this demo should be providing internet access, as that will affect IPNS resolution and publishing.

Just a reminder that internet is "opt in" on cjdns so this will not be a problem :)

Nodes and dongles

We doing any hands education component (ie workshop) or just an interactive exhibit ( this will determine number of pis needed)

makew0rld commented 6 years ago

If we have enough people the outside node being the "bait" for them to be directed inside.

Ohh. In my mind this demo was outside, but yeah inside is probably much easier. The internet outside can be just proof-of-concept and "bait" as you said. Makes sense.

darkdrgn2k commented 6 years ago

In my mind this demo was outside

We have to be careful what we are organizing "outside" as its a public place and needs permits.

makew0rld commented 6 years ago

What about the courtyard right outside FreeGeek? Who owns that? Also, if we are part outside, but mostly inside, we need to have at least 2 people one "outside duty" the whole time to attract people, run the internet demo, and corral people inside after that.

ryan-fgt commented 6 years ago

We're okay in the small parkette right out front of Free Geek if we stick primarily to paved part. We can be on the grass as well, just not take up all the space.

garrying commented 6 years ago

@dasanchez I plan on attending if this is the start of RSVP. I can bring 2 Raspberry Pi 3 B's, and 4 of the TP-Link WN722N USB adapters if they are still needed.

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

Thanks @garrying! Yes, please bring your hardware- we can put the Pis and USB adapters to use in the IPFS demo.

darkdrgn2k commented 6 years ago

depends what we are doing for the demo.

we doing a work shop. then we need more pis

ryan-fgt commented 6 years ago

Can I start promoting this event? Just basic details

Is there a tomesh logo I can use?

darkdrgn2k commented 6 years ago

we don't have a logo really but all our logos are http://Github.com/tomeshnet/design

makew0rld commented 6 years ago

I've also seen this associated with us, it's the channel logo at least: https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=mesh&i=74809

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

@ryan-fgt yes, go ahead! I think the above list covers what we will be doing:

Re: Logos- @makeworld-the-better-one linked to the one we use on the website, and you can also use the city hall one.

@darkdrgn2k You mentioned a workshop, is that something you want to do on top of the proof-of-concept connection test? I think the IPFS demo and the long-range test at Lisgar Park are enough to keep us occupied for a while.

makew0rld commented 6 years ago

A demo of SSB and/or Aether with two laptops was also mentioned, although I guess that shouldn't go on the poster since it's still a maybe.

darkdrgn2k commented 6 years ago

You mentioned a workshop, is that something you want to do on top of the proof-of-concept connection test?

The long distance test, once up, does not need babysitting. I guess we can play it by ear if people would be interest in a work shop i can run it. I really don't know what to expect as far as what kinda of people will be coming in. If there is enough interest i can run one if needed.

@dasanchez if this is a go maybe add it to the events of the website?

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

@darkdrgn2k indeed! I'll submit a PR to add the event to the website.

dcwalk commented 6 years ago

I'll be there too!

I'm wondering if this might be an opportunity to coordinate an order of the panda "T" mate / club mate with myles if anyone is interested? I think it has to be a couple cases for it to be wholesaleable!!

I'd be able to buy one

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

@dcwalk thanks, I wouldn't mind having some club mate available! Let me know how much it is for a case

darkdrgn2k commented 6 years ago

Time to think about promotions!

makew0rld commented 6 years ago
benhylau commented 6 years ago

@garrying @dcwalk can you help with twitter promo on both?

ryan-fgt commented 6 years ago

re: promo, the event has been posted on Free Geek's internal messaging service, will be in this quarter's newsletter, and on our social media channels starting later this week.

I've also reached out to other similar organizations to send it out to their membership (HackLab, Toronto FreeNet, etc.)

Oh, and we created an eventbrite page (which, if you can see my comment history, I haven't been able to get work properly)

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

I'll get to FreeGeek before noon to help set up. I'm bringing cookies and a cooler to put some of the drinks in.

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

@ryan-fgt great job with the Eventbrite page! Did you get a lot of hits?

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

I'm thinking of printing a few of these (two a page) to hand out...what do you all think?

picnic-flyer-8 5x11

ryan-fgt commented 6 years ago

This looks great!

Ryan Fukunaga Executive Director, Free Geek Toronto 180 Sudbury St | Toronto, ON | M6J 0A8 Main: 416-572-3737 | Direct: 647-673-2701 freegeektoronto.org

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 at 13:14, Dante notifications@github.com wrote:

I'm thinking of printing a few of these (two a page) to hand out...what do you all think?

[image: picnic-flyer-8 5x11] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2331903/46223110-6a06cb00-c320-11e8-8a56-5a27d543ea01.png

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/tomeshnet/tomesh.net/issues/230#issuecomment-425505032, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/Ao1MGoK-zdAFrG0pTV1h_96q0EkvqlpNks5uflkLgaJpZM4WR9Qs .

makew0rld commented 6 years ago

Looks great, good idea! I would add something about manyverse being a scuttlebutt mobile version, and also a link to Aether's site, since it's coming out soon. As we talked about, removing beaker browser but putting links to Zeronet or Althea might be something to consider. We could also just not have either of those, and just stick to the stuff we demo. 👍🏽

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

Thanks for the input!

I'll add a note to link Manyverse to SSB. Good point about only listing the services we are actually demoing! I'll take Beaker Browser off. I debated putting Aether in the list, but the website only says v1 is deprecated and v2 is being worked on. And just like Beaker, I'm not ready to show it off (I haven't even installed it :sweat_smile:)...I think we can mention it when we're talking about SSB.

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

It does look less cluttered 😄 picnic-flyer-8 5x11

makew0rld commented 6 years ago

Nice! I would point out that while saying scuttlebot is technically correct, it does look like a typo.

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

:man_facepalming: good catch

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

Butt, not bot, in both places:

picnic-flyer-8 5x11

benhylau commented 6 years ago

Secure Scuttlebutt differs from Scuttlebutt :)

Also remove the www in both SSB and Manyverse will save some space, and make links more consistent across the sheet.

Maybe use a ? icon in front of the service descriptions so it's not just a blank space?

makew0rld commented 6 years ago

+1 to removing the www, but I think a ? icon doesn't look too good, you could remove the icons entirely on that side, or just have a generic application logo. He may have already printed them though.

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

@benhylau I printed them before leaving work last night 😨 Is the "Secure" something we can mention whenever we talk about Scuttlebutt? Or is this something the Scuttlebutt and/or Secure Scuttlebutt would not appreciate?

I'm OK with just talking about distributed apps 👍

benhylau commented 6 years ago

I don't think it's a big deal, and perhaps Scuttlebutt is okay in current context.

Scuttlebutt is the general idea or concept around all of this. It's definition is loose, and is often just meant to refer to this entire thing, in the way someone refers to "the internet" or "this afternoon". In this case, the thing is the idea of a network organized similar to an actual social graph, which communicates messages in a way similar to gossip.

SSB stands for SecureScuttleButt. It is the protocol through which we can exchange messages, read each others' feeds, and make friends. You could compare it to TCP, which is an underlying protocol for how devices connect to one another on the internet. TCP is a network protocol, though, while SSB is a local protocol. This means it doesn't require any sort of internet connection to work.

scuttlebutt: a gossip protocol that synchronises messages via a vector clock of per-node timestamps or sequences. Dominic got this name from an amazon paper "Efficient Reconciliation and Flow Control for Anti-Entropy Protocols". This is the original scuttlebutt module which should now be known as "insecure scuttlebutt". This repo is generally no longer used by the ssb community.

Sources: https://www.scuttlebutt.nz/faq/basics/patchwork-vs-scuttlebutt https://www.scuttlebutt.nz/faq/basics/ssb-vs-scuttlebutt-vs-scuttlebot-vs-sbot

dasanchez commented 6 years ago

Summarized this discussion and meeting notes in the documents repo.