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topaz-next / topaz

💎 A server emulator for Final Fantasy XI.
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Stun (dark magic spell) being resisted way too often #767

Open topaz-next-bot opened 3 years ago

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Issue by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:00:49 Originally opened as: project-topaz/topaz - Issue 23

Issue by Kthulupwns Saturday Jun 06, 2015 at 18:39 GMT Originally opened as DarkstarProject/darkstar - Issue 1526

Not sure if its the formula itself for resistance vs dark magic skill or the spell itself, but it doesn't land nearly as much as it should, a good example would be like nin/drk or rdm drk landing stuns on tiamat fairly consistantly, whereas it's nigh impossible to land 1 10% of the time on pretty much anything over lvl 80

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:00:50

Comment by takhlaq Monday Jun 22, 2015 at 08:01 GMT

dumping on maxtherabbit

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:00:51

Comment by Kthulupwns Monday Jun 22, 2015 at 08:18 GMT

The problem is I have no idea how to rebalance the equation here

local dINT = caster:getStat(MOD_INT) - target:getStat(MOD_INT); local resist = applyResistanceEffect(caster,spell,target,dINT,37,0,EFFECT_STUN); if(resist <= (1/16)) then -- resisted! spell:setMsg(85); return 0; end

if(target:hasStatusEffect(EFFECT_STUN)) then
    -- no effect
    spell:setMsg(75);
else
    if(target:addStatusEffect(EFFECT_STUN,1,0,duration*resist)) then
        spell:setMsg(236);
    else
        spell:setMsg(75);
    end
end

return EFFECT_STUN;

end;

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:00:52

Comment by Kthulupwns Monday Jun 22, 2015 at 08:33 GMT

it looks like thats not the actual problem the problem is that dark magic skill is actually being calculated into stuns accuracy.

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:00:54

Comment by TeoTwawki Tuesday Jun 23, 2015 at 10:16 GMT

the problem is that dark magic skill is actually being calculated into stuns accuracy.

That is not the problem, that is supposed to be happening. On retail you can stack +dark skill gear to increase success rate on high resistance mobs. Problem has to lie elsewhere, especially if you are only seeing the problem on specific mobs or at specific level ranges.

A mobs lv, thunder resistance, stun resistance, int, and magic evasion stats will all aid its resistance while a players level, dark magic skill, int, and magic accuracy will aid in landing the spell. Maybe the level correction bits don't fair so well on higher levels? I've never seen the math for how that is done on retail, only how DarkStar does it in a handful of places like ranged ammo with add effects so I really can't be sure.

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:00:55

Comment by Kthulupwns Tuesday Jun 23, 2015 at 19:24 GMT

well i mean as a drk with Maxed merits on stun and + drk skill 75 cap i can barely land stuns on sky gods let alone jailers or tiamat, and a rdm/drk with a really low grade int dark skill should be able to land them at least 90% of the tiem

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:00:56

Comment by Deadwing888 Sunday Jun 28, 2015 at 05:35 GMT

If MOD_STUNRES could be configured to accept a negative value, we could just lower stun resistance on every mob that matters? Or maybe add 50 magic accuracy on top of what gets calculated via dark magic skill etc?

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:00:57

Comment by teschnei Sunday Jun 28, 2015 at 06:43 GMT

nobody is going to remember to add negative stun resistance every time they add a new mob

the solution is not to throw random bonus accuracy for no reason, it is to fix the actual resistance formula

On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 11:35 PM, Deadwing888 notificationsgithub.com wrote:

If RES_STUN could be configured to accept a negative value, we could just lower stun resistance on every mob that matters? Or maybe add 50 magic accuracy on top of what gets calculated via dark magic skill etc?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub github/DarkstarProject/darkstar - Issue 1526Darkstar Issue issuecomment-116196370 .

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:00:59

Comment by maxtherabbit Sunday Jun 28, 2015 at 12:07 GMT

the base resistance formula is correct as far as I can tell, one option is to use the bonus param in the call to applyResistanceEffect(caster,spell,target,dINT,37,0,EFFECT_STUN);

the '0' param is bonus macc

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:00

Comment by teschnei Sunday Jun 28, 2015 at 18:25 GMT

well, I wrote the resistance formula and I definitely made up a ton of shit for it

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:01

Comment by Deadwing888 Thursday Jul 02, 2015 at 14:20 GMT

Is there any info I could lift from retail that would help you with this?

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:02

Comment by Hozu Monday Jul 06, 2015 at 00:30 GMT

I'm going to say that Flash is another spell that's supposed to have higher than usual accuracy. It almost never fully resists on retail.

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:04

Comment by maxtherabbit Monday Jul 06, 2015 at 13:55 GMT

a while back I reviewed the base magic resistance calculations and they appeared correct based on all information I was able to find online

it is my belief that either: 1) certain spells like flash and stun simply have bonus accuracy, in which case it would be appropriate to use the bonus param or 2) divine magic and dark magic obey different rules from elemental and enfeebling with respect to resistance - this could be tested on retail by comparing drain/aspir and banish resistances against dsp

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:05

Comment by bendangelo Sunday Sep 20, 2015 at 07:14 GMT

I been looking into magic resistance for a while now. I definitely believe flash / stun are special spells that have a bonus magic accuracy. They do not act like regular spells, I used to play blm and stun would rarely get resisted.

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:07

Comment by Deadwing888 Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 10:43 GMT

bendangelo Any update on stun?

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:08

Comment by bendangelo Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 13:33 GMT

I need a data point. I would say change to rdm/drk and chainspell stun an IT. Tell me the total number of casts and the number of resists.

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:09

Comment by teschnei Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 14:32 GMT

By the way, I was digging around for sudden lunge sets when I found someone on xiah mention that the spell stun had bonus macc that head butt and sudden lunge did not, if that helps

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:10

Comment by bendangelo Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 16:23 GMT

Yeah flash / stun / dispel / magic finale. They must all have a magic bonus of no higher than 50 because the formula just doesn't work for those spells. I'll probably hop onto retail and test it out later.

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:12

Comment by Hozu Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 16:28 GMT

Possibly Actinic Burst as well. If it doesn't, well then the 200 bonus mag acc it currently has should be removed, heh.

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:13

Comment by bendangelo Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 16:37 GMT

That should be removed, with 200 magic acc it can land flash on anything

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:14

Comment by TeoTwawki Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 16:40 GMT

I think that was the idea when it got added. Whoever added that assumed it'd work like the spell flash, which is crazy accurate.

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:15

Comment by bendangelo Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 16:57 GMT

The thing is that's overkill, you'll end up always landing flash on Kirin and magic resistant mobs. It has to be balanced in some way. I think 50 magic accuracy is reasonable or maybe even 75.

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:16

Comment by TeoTwawki Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 20:40 GMT

Depends. In the case of that blu spell, it may not even be correct to have the bonus at all. I have no idea. Just stating what I think the thought was by whoever.

Somewhat unrelated thought, but: do we floor/cap the hit rate after all the math is done?

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:18

Comment by TeoTwawki Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 20:41 GMT

"does DSP" do that, I should say.

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:19

Comment by bendangelo Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 21:45 GMT

Yeah magic is capped at 5-95%

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:20

Comment by teschnei Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 21:46 GMT

Isn't floor 20?

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:22

Comment by bendangelo Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 21:48 GMT

Floor is currently 5

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:23

Comment by teschnei Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 22:00 GMT

I mean supposed to be

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:24

Comment by bendangelo Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 22:07 GMT

From what I've seen it's been 5%. http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Hit_Rate

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:25

Comment by teschnei Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 22:18 GMT

Ah, silly being different from melee hit rate..

topaz-next-bot commented 3 years ago

Comment by topaz-bot Wednesday Jan 08, 2020 at 14:01:26

Comment by Hozu Thursday Oct 15, 2015 at 22:57 GMT

Well if it were 20% it'd be pretty easy for a few people to say... spam silence on things like Suzaku. So probably balance reasons.