What is the relationship of prestosql and prestodb?

[voycey]

I never see someone on other community channels so figured I would post here. We have been using Presto in production now for around a year and I only recently noticed this repository.

Could you please clarify what the relationship is between this one and prestodb/presto as both seem to be under active development and working?

Many thanks!

[martint]

This repository and github org were created shortly after the Presto Software Foundation was set up (see the original announcement: https://prweb.com/releases/prweb16070792.htm). It's where most of the committers to Presto and a much of the community are doing active development. Facebook continues to develop their version in the prestodb repository.

The new website is at https://prestosql.io, and you can find a link to the Slack channel under https://prestosql.io/community.html.

[voycey]

Thanks Martin,

I assume there is still a fair bit of collaboration between Facebook's Presto and the PSF? e.g. if FB develop some cool new functionality will it be ported across and vice versa?

Will the FB Presto backlog be used as part of the roadmap for this Presto?

[martint]

Unfortunately, we have very little visibility into what FB is doing and their plans for their version. We've been picking some changes and bug fixes that we've found interesting, but we expect that's going to be increasingly difficult as the code bases continue to diverge (e.g., prestosql has 500+ commits and more than half of those are not in the other repo).

Will the FB Presto backlog be used as part of the roadmap for this Presto?

The roadmap is being driven by what the community needs and is able to work on.

[vweevers]

Is FB Presto going to be phased out in favor of this fork? If not, could this project be renamed to avoid confusion?

[martint]

I can't speak for what FB intends to do with their project, but the original founders and the major contributors that are still active (who wrote the majority of the codebase) are developing on this repository. It's also the one supported by many Presto vendors such as Starburst, Qubole, TreasureData, Varada, etc, and has a large and growing community of users and contributors.

[vweevers]

Having read this thread and the PSF announcement, apologies, I'm still missing the why of the fork. Both have a dedicated GitHub org, both claim to be the official home of Presto, both had an equal amount of activity (and number of external contributors) in the past 30d.

Activity (click to expand)

`prestodb/presto`:  `prestosql/presto`: 

If the reasons for the fork are private, due to internal friction, politics and/or commercial interests, I can understand that. But seeing as both projects are very much alive, I think it would help the larger community to give this a new distinctive name.

[findepi]

@vweevers I see where you are coming from. Yes, as the activity shows, both projects are active. Please have a look at project contributors. You will find out that this is the Presto project we built over the years. This is the same team, same people. In my opinion, renaming it would cause more confusion, more harm than good.

Also, this is the same community that gathered around the project over the time. Join Presto Community Slack (https://prestosql.io/community.html) and the mailing group (you may also want to join the old slack too). Wait a week or two and experience the community.

[vweevers]

@findepi Thank you.

One additional note, regarding the project description: people may read "Official home of the community version of Presto" as this being a "light" edition, as if there is also a paid Enterprise edition. Perhaps tweak that a bit.

[l4z41]

Recently the PrestoDB repository announced a Presto Foundation and handed it over to the Linux Foundation. This PrestoSQL repository with the prior announced The Presto Foundation could take the chance to provide one active named Presto OSS project and the Enterprise version with Starburst under latest developments. Any new insights on this? Are you now working together with the Linux Foundation on this? How should I invest my effort.

[findepi]

@l4z41 I won't speak for facebook and their managers' politics. They were invited to join the Presto Software Foundation but they didn't want to.

Instead, they created their own foundation. Yet, major contributors and project creators were not invited to participate or be involved in discussions leading to the formation of Facebook's foundation.

However, to me the question where to invest your efforts is an easy one. Just take a look where are the people who built this project over the years. Who created it in the first place, who contributed to the project the most over time.

This is the project and this is the team. Just check the project contributors (https://github.com/prestosql/presto/graphs/contributors or https://github.com/prestodb/presto/graphs/contributors) and check where these people are now.

See also my comment above (https://github.com/prestosql/presto/issues/380#issuecomment-508645121).

The article you referenced (https://www.indexventures.com/perspectives/starburst-and-presto-stellar-velocity/) simply means that Starburst will be able to do even more for the project now. Even compared to a lot that we have done already.

You can reach me on slack (https://prestosql.io/slack.html) if you have any questions.

[l4z41]

Thanks for the input. Just mad about the lost energies here and as this now is not Facebooks foundation anymore hoped that this is a signal for a merger as no venture capitalist would heavily invest under these circumstances with disparaty in the community. Due diligence should have delivered these as red flags and with the referenced article and the prior announcements I hoped for a green light and the best for Presto with the Linux Foundation now in charge and with Starburst rockin' an enterprise solution. I don't want to compare which OSS project is more alive. Presto should bloom and people don't even know of this discrepancy. I personally hope for a fast integration with Delta and would like my team to contribute.

[martint]

@l4z41, not sure where you get the impression about "lost energies", but as someone who's been involved with Presto since the beginning, I can easily say this has been the best year ever for the project. The community has grown dramatically over the last 10 months, and there's participation from a more diverse set of people all over the world. The project is more active than ever before, and there's no indication it's slowing down. In numbers:

• The number of people interacting weekly in Slack has doubled since the beginning of the year. The number of people registered almost doubled in that same period. As a frame of reference, I created the original Slack channel back in 2015.
• We've done 26 releases in the past 10 months alone.
• ~280k lines of code have changed.
• The community organized multiple whole-day summits across the world:
  • https://prestosql.io/blog/2019/05/03/Presto-Conference-Israel.html
  • https://prestosql.io/blog/2019/05/17/Presto-Summit.html
  • https://prestosql.io/blog/2019/07/11/report-for-presto-conference-tokyo.html
  • https://prestosql.io/blog/2019/09/05/Presto-Summit-Bangalore.html
• Tons of new features and improvements:
  • FETCH FIRST … WITH TIES syntax
  • OFFSET syntax
  • COMMENT ON IS …
    [LEFT/RIGHT/FULL] JOIN LATERAL (…) ON
    IGNORE NULLS for window functions
    .* for ROW expressions
    Pass-through security (client provided credentials)
    Impersonation for Hive Metastore
    Kerberos security improvements
    Support for Hadoop KMS
    Role-based security
    Secure query results in client API
    Current user security mode for views
    Support for Azure Data Lake
    Hive Bucketing V2
    Docker image
    Spill-to-disk improvements
    CLI output formats
    Syntax highlighting in CLI
    UUID type and functions
    format(), combinations() functions
    ORC bloom filters (non-legacy)
    Connector-provided view definitions
    Elasticsearch Connector
    Google Sheets Connector
    Amazon Kinesis Connector
    Apache Phoenix Connector
    LZ4/ZSTD support for ORC/Parquet
    More type mappings for various connectors
    Performance improvements for GCS and S3
    Performance improvements for UNNEST
    ... lots more at https://prestosql.io/docs/current/release.html
    kokes commented 4 years ago

    Not sure about the comment author above, but to me, the lost energy is in the team split - there are now two projects (one name), two foundations, two communities, two roadmaps, ... for a product that started from the same, mature codebase not that long ago.

    Sometimes forks are necessary, but from an outside point of view, I fail to see the need here, especially now that both projects are in the true OSS space (meaning that they are governed by an independent body, not a company).

    dain commented 4 years ago

    @kokes I'd like to point you back to the comment from @findepi. We tried our best to get the developers from those 4 corporations to join, but their management teams decided to go another way, and we won't attempt to characterize the reasoning of the management teams. I will say the good news is the much larger general community is consolidated here. Also, many of the devs from those companies have been rejoining the larger community as they depart their former employers, so we are very positive about the future.

    l4z41 commented 4 years ago

    @kokes exactly! @martint imagine the scale of the upward trajectory and where the project would be now as one without this divergence. Focused energy! Maybe Presto wouldn't be here now where it is without the split, who knows. I'm just joining in, liking the project and want it to be further. This issue is a risk factor for me and now would be a great moment to let ego be, because both projects are running in the same direction. Don't want anybody to judge but it is totally unreasonable for me to let it continue this split way. Should be a no-brainer and I'm also optimistic about the future of Presto 🚀

    findepi commented 4 years ago

    @l4z41 @kokes i think there is some misunderstanding. Let me try to clarify. We all agree that one project without split would be better than two projects. We see and acknowledge there is some lost energy. So if you can somehow influence this 4 corporations' management to work together with the community, please do it. We spent a lot of days trying this already. Just to restate that -- if they don't join, we will miss them. And we will regret lost energy. But the Project's future is bright nonetheless.

    kokes commented 4 years ago

    @l4z41 @kokes i think there is some misunderstanding. Let me try to clarify. We all agree that one project without split would be better than two projects. We see and acknowledge there is some lost energy.

    Thank you, this clarifies it greatly. From reading the mailing lists and comments here, it seemed like the sentiment was "yeah, there was a split, but we're clearly the superior project of the two", your comments are much more aligned with how I view things.

    Let's hope the split ends up like MySQL/MariaDB, where both evolved into mature products with distinct features, engaging communities and varying governance, that's probably the next best thing (the best thing being a merger). I wish you all the best.

    Thanks.

    asdf2014 commented 3 years ago

    I wrote a blog that briefly compared PrestoDB and PrestoSQL, hoping to help newcomers to Presto. For details, see https://yuzhouwan.com/posts/200906/#PrestoDB-vs-PrestoSQL. BTW, the data in the comparison table will be updated regularly.

    martint commented 3 years ago

    We’re rebranding PrestoSQL as Trino. We’re not going anywhere - it’s the same software, by the same people, just under a new name: http://trino.io/blog/2020/12/27/announcing-trino.html

    wisterw commented 3 years ago

    It's not like Oracle/Maria. Oracle is not a foundation like Linux Foundation. Maria's roadmap has been taken over by a venture-backed company -- could this be in Trino's future with AH investment in Starburst?). Also, mysql covers much more territory as it includes many storage engines and transactions.

    Anyway I think you guys got the more open governance you wanted, even if you are not fully in charge -- it's time to rejoin. by not unifying, over time, cross-committing will become too hard. My company likes to follow what AWS chooses (Athena in this case) as they don't make these decisions lightly.

    haochuantuo commented 3 years ago

    A great comparison also appears at https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68882527/difference-between-trino-and-presto/

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[kokes]

Not sure about the comment author above, but to me, the lost energy is in the team split - there are now two projects (one name), two foundations, two communities, two roadmaps, ... for a product that started from the same, mature codebase not that long ago.

Sometimes forks are necessary, but from an outside point of view, I fail to see the need here, especially now that both projects are in the true OSS space (meaning that they are governed by an independent body, not a company).

[dain]

@kokes I'd like to point you back to the comment from @findepi. We tried our best to get the developers from those 4 corporations to join, but their management teams decided to go another way, and we won't attempt to characterize the reasoning of the management teams. I will say the good news is the much larger general community is consolidated here. Also, many of the devs from those companies have been rejoining the larger community as they depart their former employers, so we are very positive about the future.

[l4z41]

@kokes exactly! @martint imagine the scale of the upward trajectory and where the project would be now as one without this divergence. Focused energy! Maybe Presto wouldn't be here now where it is without the split, who knows. I'm just joining in, liking the project and want it to be further. This issue is a risk factor for me and now would be a great moment to let ego be, because both projects are running in the same direction. Don't want anybody to judge but it is totally unreasonable for me to let it continue this split way. Should be a no-brainer and I'm also optimistic about the future of Presto 🚀

[findepi]

@l4z41 @kokes i think there is some misunderstanding. Let me try to clarify. We all agree that one project without split would be better than two projects. We see and acknowledge there is some lost energy. So if you can somehow influence this 4 corporations' management to work together with the community, please do it. We spent a lot of days trying this already. Just to restate that -- if they don't join, we will miss them. And we will regret lost energy. But the Project's future is bright nonetheless.

[kokes]

@l4z41 @kokes i think there is some misunderstanding. Let me try to clarify. We all agree that one project without split would be better than two projects. We see and acknowledge there is some lost energy.

Thank you, this clarifies it greatly. From reading the mailing lists and comments here, it seemed like the sentiment was "yeah, there was a split, but we're clearly the superior project of the two", your comments are much more aligned with how I view things.

Let's hope the split ends up like MySQL/MariaDB, where both evolved into mature products with distinct features, engaging communities and varying governance, that's probably the next best thing (the best thing being a merger). I wish you all the best.

Thanks.

[asdf2014]

I wrote a blog that briefly compared PrestoDB and PrestoSQL, hoping to help newcomers to Presto. For details, see https://yuzhouwan.com/posts/200906/#PrestoDB-vs-PrestoSQL. BTW, the data in the comparison table will be updated regularly.

[martint]

We’re rebranding PrestoSQL as Trino. We’re not going anywhere - it’s the same software, by the same people, just under a new name: http://trino.io/blog/2020/12/27/announcing-trino.html

[wisterw]

It's not like Oracle/Maria. Oracle is not a foundation like Linux Foundation. Maria's roadmap has been taken over by a venture-backed company -- could this be in Trino's future with AH investment in Starburst?). Also, mysql covers much more territory as it includes many storage engines and transactions.

Anyway I think you guys got the more open governance you wanted, even if you are not fully in charge -- it's time to rejoin. by not unifying, over time, cross-committing will become too hard. My company likes to follow what AWS chooses (Athena in this case) as they don't make these decisions lightly.

[haochuantuo]

A great comparison also appears at https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68882527/difference-between-trino-and-presto/