Closed frivoal closed 2 months ago
The Team's choice of appointee(s) is subject to ratification by secret ballot by both the AB and the TAG, each requiring a two-thirds approval.
The word "each" here implies distribution of the statement following to multiple items in the preceding text.
I see four interpretations:
This issue covers one point of distribution here. There, the question is whether the "each" applies to the bodies (TAG and AB) rather than the appointees. I think that points to option 4, but this could be clearer still.
For the "of the ballot vs of the ratifying body" question, see also https://github.com/w3c/w3process/issues/838
Oh dear. There are additional interpretations. I don't think the intent has ever been for such approval votes as these to cover a roster of appointees (as interpretations 2 and 4 above imply), but rather to be held for each appointee (no matter their number).
I think these are the live possibilities for this particular text segment. I don't think the 4 above are viable nor what was intended.
My sense is that ballot is how the existing text has been read, but it is entirely possible that sitting members was the original intent. I could probably be convinced either way by folks who have a longer history of working on these documents.
The Revising W3C Process CG just discussed Ambiguity of "each" for TAG appointment ratifications
, and agreed to the following:
RESOLVED: Change "each" to "from each" as described above, and ask if anyone can find an ambiguity in it
Made the proposed change, and pinged the TAG about it.
I agree this is less ambiguous. However, I think it's also less desirable. To be clear, I think the "each" should apply to each prospective appointee rather than within each group - though I recognise (now) that this isn't what the Process CG had in mind.
RESOLVED: Change "each" to "from each" as described above, and ask if anyone can find an ambiguity in it
Yes. There is remaining ambiguity. I think either of the changes represented below (I prefer the first) would resolve what remains and represents original intent.
The [=Team=]'s choice of appointee(s)
Each appointee chosen by the [=Team=]
is subject to ratification by secret ballot
by both the [=AB=] and the [=TAG=],
requiring a two-thirds approval from each.
or
The [=Team=]'s choice of appointee(s)
is subject to ratification by secret ballot
is subject to ratification
of each appointee
by secret ballot
by both the [=AB=] and the [=TAG=],
requiring a two-thirds approval from each.
To be clear, when we (process cg) first developed this process, my clear recollection of the intent was to ratify as a whole, not individual appointees. The idea was essentially that the Team would work with the TAG to understand the missing expertise and agree on appointees, then have the whole ratified.
@cwilso — OK. Presuming that your recollection is confirmed, then this version removes the same ambiguity —
The [=Team=]'s choice of appointee(s)
as a whole
is subject to ratification by secret ballot
by both the [=AB=] and the [=TAG=],
requiring a two-thirds approval from each.
I'd prefer to have a separate issue about whether appointees should be confirmed individually or as a set, so that we can discuss the pros and cons about that prior to discussing the phrasing.
Suggestion:
The Teams choice of appointee(s) is ratified separately by the TAG and by the AB. The Team is required to run a secret ballot with each group, which passes if two thirds of the group (rounded up) approve.
Note that this addresses two concerns:
The third concern, whether each appointee is individual affirmed, is not addressed. I personally have no opinion on that matter, though I might prefer to leave the decision to the Team as to whether the ratification is batched or per-appointee. (Once resolved, I would ask that a sentence be added to memorialize that decision. But that can happen later.)
@frivoal — I'm fine with splitting out the questions of individual vs group confirmation, and of sitting members vs ballot casters. My comments since https://github.com/w3c/w3process/issues/836#issuecomment-2022906227 were based on —
ask if anyone can find an ambiguity in it
The Revising W3C Process CG just discussed Disambiguate "each" in TAG appointment ratification
, and agreed to the following:
RESOLVED: Merge PR 837 to clarify "each"
This narrow issue about ambiguity of phrasing is now closed through merging https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/837. The broader discussion of TAG appointments remains open in https://github.com/w3c/w3process/issues/809, https://github.com/w3c/w3process/issues/810, https://github.com/w3c/w3process/issues/811
https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/Drafts/#TAG-appointments has this sentence:
There was some confusions as to what "each" means, the two possible alternative being:
Based on the issue and commit that introduced this (https://github.com/w3c/w3process/issues/715 and https://github.com/w3c/w3process/commit/bcc08778105583c1cd8302db14e4af107b51d7c4), I think it is clear that the second meaning is intended.
We should clarify that to avoid confusion.