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132nd-vWing / OPAR

Operation Active Resolve
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Ground combat - help needed #18

Open 132ndNeck opened 2 years ago

132ndNeck commented 2 years ago

@132nd-Entropy I have watched a little on the development of new classes in Moose: Ops-chief, ops-brigade, ops-commander, ops-auftrag, ops-transport, ops-intel, ops-armugroup and want to investigate if we now finally can try to script a dynamic ground combat offensive on the brigade level. This would be a huge win for OPAR and especially the A-G assets involved.

I will try to describe the functions that would be needed to make it happen, and you can see if this is possible, or simply still not possible.

I do not intend this to be run at every OPAR, but I as the mission designer can decide when the Syrian forces will start an offensive in a certain area, and when I do, this script can help the Syrian forces conduct the offensive (And potentially a blue script that also can handle some basic reactions on the blue side, to improve the dynamic feeling and immersion of a real battle taking place).

The Brigade in OPAR consist of several parts that all are important for the ground offensive:

Steps in the ground offensive (Intended for a normal event with 2 hours duration)

  1. Send out recon units to locate enemy units on the way to the objectives. Use artillery in support if they identify enemy units to support.
  2. Once in a position to scan the zone in a reasonable way, call in targets for the artillery to start shaping (successful shaping, either by amount of time of artillery engagement in the zone, or a percentage of units in the zone destroyed).
  3. Once shaping is complete, the maneuver units start moving toward the objectives.
  4. Once all objectives have been met, the force start resupplying its maneuver forces.

Objectives The ground force, from here on called the brigade, should have an option to set several objectives that it intend to occupy. This can be trigger zones (either small or large?). If possible, it should be possible to set the order of which these objectives are met. (To "force" the enemy to attack in a specific direction).

Maybe the ops-chief of staff class is good for this? https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Chief.html or https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Functional.ZoneCaptureCoalition.html or https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.OpsZone.html

Intelligence The first step in the shaping is to move recon units forward to get a understanding of the enemy in the objective zones. The brigade have recon units attached that will scout out ahead of a attack. While moving forward to start scanning in the objective zones, the recon units move under protetion of their artillery, and can call in artilly support if they detect threats to their movement.

Maybe the ops-intel class is good for this: https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Intel.html

Maybe the ops-chief class can be used to start the artillery support https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Chief.html or https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Functional.Arty.html or https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Brigade.html

Once the recon units are in place, they start the offensive shaping using artillery support.

In addition to the moving recon units, it should also be possible to use forward observers (simulated recon units that have infiltrated by foot, and are dug down (Set to invisible in the mission editor) and are covering a certain sector).

Shaping The recon units are in place and call in the information to the artillery so they can start engaging targets and start the shaping. Using the the class of ops-target, it might be possible to setup some criteria for when a attack can be started? https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Target.html For example, when 25% of units in obj A1 have been destroyed, the manuever units start their assault? That way, the ground forces can use intelligence units to call in artillery on that objective, and once the shaping is finished, the assault starts.

After the shaping criteria have been met, the artillery units should resupply to make sure they have a full load of ammunition before the attack starts. 5-10 minutes prior to the assault start, the artillery units should fire suppression fires against the closes objectives zones. This so it can protect the manuever forces while it moves forward. If possible, the artillery should continue to fire sporadic against the objective zone until the maneuver forces are at a certain distance from the objective zone, at that point, they should move their fire to the next objective zone.

The artillery should relocate after a certain interval to avoid counterfire https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Functional.Arty.html If possible, a priority for artillery would be enemy artillery if detected by recon units

Maneuver units / Combat The manuver units will operate in platoon formation (3 units) or in company size (3x 3 units) for either APC, IFV or MBT. This is the main combat forces that will engage the enemy in the direct attack. In a typical brigade attack, there will be two lines of attack, and one battalion (3 companies (each with 3 platoons) ) per line of attack, and the remaining battalion back as a reserve, ready to be called up where they meet most resistance (taking heaviest losses).

The maneuver units move forward and engage all enemies they can see on their way to the objective zones

Maybe ops-army group or ops-auftrag are good ways to make this work? https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.ArmyGroup.html or https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Auftrag.html

Not sure, but maybe the ops-brigade class might be of help to setup/organize the manuever forces? https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Brigade.html

Command and control Maybe a brigade HQ can be defined by a unit or static unit, and destroying this will prevent the brigade from solving its mission and effectivly stopping the offensive. For example if the use of the ops-chief class is linked to the C2 unit? https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Chief.html

Logistics After the offensive is completed and all objectives have been met, start a resupply phase. It is intended that the maneuver units and artillery units are resupplied from the Corps or Division storage area. When the objectives have been met, the brigade logistical assets will start heading back to the Division storage area (Can be set as either a trigger zone, or defined by a unit or static unit?). At that area there will be both food, ammunition and fuel (The script does not need to actually handle this, just the movements) and it will simulate to onload supplies, and then transport it forward to the frontlines, either to each unit, or to a central location close to the frontlines.

If possible, it would also be desirable to have helicopters fly resupply missions from further back, and land at the Division storage area. Division areas are typical at an airfield or FARP

Rearming zones and refueling zones as described in the ops-commander class could be established close to the frontline to make this happen? https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Commander.html

Maybe also some options here: https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Cargo.Cargo.html

One of the challenges in trying to make a realistic ground combat is that the AI is so effective during its engagements that the battles are over very quikly, so any ways to slow down the offensive, or be able to adjust the timings it take is also highly desirable.

I know this is a very complex and challening thing to ask for, but it would be amazing if we were able to create something like this! Please let me know your thoughts and suggestions how to tweak this.

thebgpikester commented 2 years ago

I didn't see any roadblocks. INTEL (aka DETECTION) is the eyes for CHIEF's mission production. In terms of AI only, its good to go, right now, i dont know of any large scale usage of this, it's pretty intense depending on how you set it up. I know you need to work in players. That's a bit more complex. You can take INTELs first discoveries and send them to anything as a report, by default an F10 marker, with a little work, something more like a DIscord webhook to send it somewhere.

I would say building the RED team for this is a good start as 132nd have enough people to combat CHIEF class in full flow.

For Blue, you need to consider how much friendly AI you can tolerate. I didnt think this was a big requirement for you, but you could get a hybrid usage, by having a good map reporting system with drones doing the detection and putting them on the map.

Your 2nd last sentence summed up the entire problem: DCS firefights are way too short. If you make a solution for that it will be a lot of thinking.

I'd pick the battlefield first, find optimum distances for ground to travel and achieve something in the 2hr period first. Work out a way to pace the entire thing before worrying about CHIEF, it will be plenty busy. Theres an example in https://discord.com/channels/378590350614462464/911274394108706828 pinned messages.

132ndNeck commented 2 years ago

I didn't see any roadblocks. INTEL (aka DETECTION) is the eyes for CHIEF's mission production. In terms of AI only, its good to go, right now, i dont know of any large scale usage of this, it's pretty intense depending on how you set it up. I know you need to work in players. That's a bit more complex. You can take INTELs first discoveries and send them to anything as a report, by default an F10 marker, with a little work, something more like a DIscord webhook to send it somewhere.

I would say building the RED team for this is a good start as 132nd have enough people to combat CHIEF class in full flow.

For Blue, you need to consider how much friendly AI you can tolerate. I didnt think this was a big requirement for you, but you could get a hybrid usage, by having a good map reporting system with drones doing the detection and putting them on the map.

Your 2nd last sentence summed up the entire problem: DCS firefights are way too short. If you make a solution for that it will be a lot of thinking.

I'd pick the battlefield first, find optimum distances for ground to travel and achieve something in the 2hr period first. Work out a way to pace the entire thing before worrying about CHIEF, it will be plenty busy. Theres an example in https://discord.com/channels/378590350614462464/911274394108706828 pinned messages.

Thank you for having a look and the feedback! Hopefully , I do not need to include players in this ground combat script. I will be able to handle and coordinate that as the event host (and de facto enemy commander).

For the blue side, I only intend to have something that can react to the situation, so there appears to be some dynamic involved.

And timing wise, yes, we will see, If we can get this ground combat working in a way, I can play with distances and figuring out where to conduct it. But the concept need to be working before I get there. And getting a thumbs up from you is a big positive step that this is actually feasable and doable (compared to some years ago where we could not make something like this work).

funkyfranky commented 2 years ago

I've had a close look at this because it is an interesting challenge :)

A lot is already there as you correctly mention, Neck. The major road block are the multiple phases, which also require the "re-use" of assets.

The design of all the "Legions", i.e. airwings, brigades, fleets, is that the groups are spawned to carry out one particular mission. When that is done, they want to go home. A bit, because the main focus initially was on aircraft, which need to RTB anyway due to fuel and ammo limitations. Therefore, I added a new AUFTRAG (mission) type "Nothing" for ground/naval units, which just spawn them so they are preferred for other missions and remain on the "battle field" after a real mission has been assigned and finished.

For the different "phases", I am designing a new class called OPERATION. This should make it comparatively easy to set conditions (if necessary), when a certain phase is over and a new one starts. You can add missions (AUFTRAG) or targets (`TARGET), which are carried out or engaged in particular phases.