Comms flow on military parking area at Bodø

[132ndNeck]

Military parking area at Bodø has no taxiway letters so we need to decide on the approach to flow on the military parking area:

1. Let pilots find their own way to Taxiway Y and contact ATC before entering Taxiway Y, L or K
2. Contact ATC before starting to taxi

[hbjonsson]

1. As per real life. Only the taxiways are controlled. Could not find L or K in DCS... where are they?

[132ndMagnet]

1. It would be very messy to give instructions prior to entering a labelled taxiway. It would require lots of 'lefts' and 'rights' and, in my opinion, it is not necessary.

[132ndNeck]

1. As per real life. Only the taxiways are controlled. Could not find L or K in DCS... where are they?

Probably some old charts though:

ENBO airport diagram.pdf

[132Typhoon]

How it is performed currently? I know from small airfields, where you have a standard point to contact the twr, but not before.

[Shadoga]

What we have there in ENBO south of TWY "Y" are so-called "shelter loop" taxiway systems (I'm sure you knew that already ;-). In this case, two simple ones: "Shelter Loop GOLF" in the East and "Shelter Loop LIMA" in the far West. Inbetween them is a very complex one, "Shelter Loop KILO". S.L. LIMA has only one entry / exit to TWY "Y" and one connection to the S.L. KILO system. S.L. KILO has 4 entries / exits to TWY "Y", I labeled them "KILO 1" to "KILO 4" from West to East. S.L. GOLF has 2 entries / exits to TWY "Y", "GOLF 1" and "GOLF 2". Those entries / exits are default taxi clearance limits. Inside the shelter loops, ATC will not issue detailed taxi instructions or deconflict taxiing flights or help in grouping flights together whose ships spawned in dispersed shelters. Flights will coordinate their "grouping or join-up" on internal radio if they can do it inside their shelter loop. [An otherwise unused (uncontrolled) GND frequency could however be used for coordination between different conflicting flights.] ATC will have to be contacted nevertheless by FL before individually commencing taxi from the individual spawnpoints, in order to coordinate WX, RWY, Intentions and especially the TWY Entries - where the flight is intending to enter TWY "Y".

There are several opportunities to group / join-up the flight from scattered individual shelter spawnpoints:

• The most intelligent one being to coordinate the taxi movements in a way where a flight's ships pick up each other in sequence in front of their individual shelters and then approach the desired Entry onto "Y" in the correct sequence.
• In S.L. KILO, they could also just taxi individually to the Arming / De-arming Pad "Last Chance KILO" near Entry "K2" and park there to establish formation for further taxiing. Last Chance KILO can hold a maximum of 4 jets.
• In S.L. LIMA, there is the additional possibility to go into S.L. KILO system via the common TWY connection and then use "Last Chance KILO" and / or any K1-K4 entry onto TWY "Y".
• Further opportunities to join-up would be the Ramp "CHARLIE-5" and the Arming / De-arming Pad "Last Chance YANKEE" (latter fits only 2 jets) in the far East.
• Both locations would require to individually taxi via TWY "Y" in a coordinated / ATC-cleared fashion however.

Controlled Comms Flow Example RWY07:

FLT: Bodo TWR, Ghost2 Flight. TWR: Ghost2 Flt, Bodo TWR. FLT: Ghost2, 2-ship Tomcats, Shelters K22 & K30, VFR local via EXIT EAST, Information INDIA, taxiing to Last Chance KILO. TWR: Ghost2, roger, RWY07, Altimeter 29.99. - Ghost2-2, Parrot Sour, squawk 3402. FLT: Ghost2, RWY07, Altimeter 29.99, roger, squawk 3402 for -2. TWR: Ghost2, next report ready for taxi from Last Chance KILO. FLT: Ghost2, wilco.

FLT: Ghost2, request taxi via KILO2 to MIKE. TWR: Ghost2, taxi to holding point RWY07 via KILO2, YANKEE and MIKE, hold short, report ready for departure. FLT: Ghost2, taxiing to holding point RWY07 via KILO2 YANKEE and MIKE, holding short, wilco. ... and so on.

Can of course be shortened if no intermdiate stop is required. Optional intermediate taxi intentions: to "Ramp CHARLIE-FIVE" or "Last Chance YANKEE", maybe individual taxi clearances onto "Y" required before join-up...

Uncontrolled Comms Flow Example RWY25, join-up required:

FL: Bodo Traffic, Ram1-1, single Hornet, (parking position) Shelter K22, taxiing to Ramp CHARLIE-5 via KILO3 and YANKEE. WM: Bodo Traffic, Ram1-2, single Hornet, (parking position) Shelter K30, taxiing to Ramp CHARLIE-5 via KILO4 and YANKEE westbound.

FLT: Bodo Traffic, Ram1 flight, 2-ship Hornet, (parking position) Ramp CHARLIE-5, (VFR to Warfighter via LANDEGO WEST, Information INDIA,) taxiing to holding point RWY25 via YANKEE and FOXTROTT.

FLT: Bodo Traffic, Ram1 flight, lining up RWY25. FLT: Bodo Traffic, Ram1 flight, 2-ship Hornet, departing RWY25, leaving control zone VFR via LANDEGO WEST. ... and so on.

If no join-up is required, it can be shortened of course. But I'm looking forward to occasionally use the Last Chances nevertheless to do the departure checks there instead of the holding point. Afterwards, one could line up right away, saving time on the holding point of the (less flexible than OMAM's) RWY & TWY system.

[Shadoga]

Last point to be added to the above: Shelter Loops are most often used only one-way, and the direction of use might change with the RWY direction in use. The whole S.L. KILO system with it's additional connection to S.L. LIMA is a little too complex for an easy rule of thumb, but simpler Loops like e.g. S.L. GOLF or the part of S.L. KILO between "K3" and "K4" are predestined to be used clock-wise for RWY07 and ccw for RWY25 operations.

Getting 20+ aircraft in multi-ship flights out of or back into ENBO in less than 30' is going to be "fun" for pilots and controllers....

[jkhoel]

I am with @hbjonsson and @132ndMagnet on this one. No need to make things overly complicated; It is not like we neither have eyes nor know where we are going. Should be enough to ask for taxi clearance, get a taxi-way entry point and possibly a hold-short. I don't really see what naming the loops would add, as there is no reason anyone would not choose the shortest route between parking and the runway.

[Shadoga]

Your eyes don't serve you when you have terrain or buildings blocking your view from seeing that someone starts to taxi from his shelter opposite to you. And the reasons why someone would not choose the shortest route between parking and the runway might be to go to an Arming / De-arming Pad, or pick up someone somewhere for re-join, etc. I'm sure they have a documented guideline there for shelter loop taxi operations, and I think we should at least try to give our pilots and ATCOs some form of guideline, info and common language - like e.g. names for the separate shelter loops and for the entries onto TWY "Y".

[000Ready000]

I would prefer using the C5 and K2 for formal flight grouping and rearming/dearming and swing checks etc like IRL, not waiting in front of each other's shelters, because that can become an issue with multiple flights on the shelter loops. Ground to be in charge of getting approval to taxi to and from the C5/K2. And leaving the routing inside the loops to the flights to sort out using some basic traffic rules,like for example right handed traffic on the loops and one way traffic in areas where you can not see around the corner because of bunkers, to prevent running into eachother (flights returning and flights leaving) and having nowhere to go. Propose a ground traffic flow map. Willing to help setting this up and creating visuals.

[Gabykhan]

In general military airfields have a mandatory taxi flow depending on the runway in use, so that taxi can be done totally silent, especially in case of EMCON situation. It's not always the shortest but it guarantees that no one ends up head on with someone else on the taxiway. Also it makes it predictable for ATC whenever there's no direct view on the taxiing plane.

[Shadoga]

In addition to what Gaby wrote: If we want to avoid taxi conflicts by installing a mandatory, mostly one-way taxi flow, at least in the shelter loops, a solution could look something like this: KILO2 and GOLF2 are the only exits for out-taxiing traffic onto TWY "Y". All other Shelter Loop entries are only for entering the loops coming from TWY "Y". The charm of this model is that it can be used independent from RWY direction in use.

One disadvantage is that this system does not offer a natural flow of all traffic to Ramp C-5 (in case we choose to initially use it for all traffic for optional join-ups, swing-checks, etc.), at least not if RWY07 is in use. If we want to have that as well, we need to install different one-way directions in parts of Shelter Loop KILO:

• For RWY07 the traffic flow would need to be routed so that KILO4 is the only exit onto "Y" instead of KILO2, thus everyone out of KILO and LIMA passes by C-5 while taxiing on "Y" towards holding points "J" and "M" RWY07.
• For RWY25 the traffic flow would be as on the pictures above.

Main disadvantage of such a mandatory shelter loop traffic flow is of course the partly significantly longer taxi distances for certain spawn positions, especially those in shelter loop LIMA. Main advantage of such a realistic system is conflict avoidance as Gaby pointed out, a gain for most traffic situations, be it controlled, uncontrolled, zip-lip, etc...

[Shadoga]

Another huge advantage of the proposed system with only one standard exit onto TWY "Y" for controlled operations would be that there is no more need for coordination via which shelter loop exit an outtaxiing flight intends to join "Y", making taxi control for TWR/GND way less complex.

It's, as always, a pros & cons consideration regarding flexibility vs. restrictiveness and complexity vs. simplicity...

[132ndNeck]

I would think our biggest concern is the conflict at the start of an event with many startups and the possibility that flights taxing to the runway bump into eachother. Not so much for departing traffic and recovering traffic jams?

So one suggestion can be the following:

The goal should be to to find a compromise to minimize the distance needed to taxi, maintaining some flexibility, but avoiding conflicts as much as possible.

[RedDog132nd]

With the mission last Wednesday, I think the one way flow Shadows mentions is better than the second option. K2 and G2 as only exits and all the others K and G entry The reasoning behind my comment is the last chance at K2 which would ease work load on flight leads and offer the chance for flight crews to make their final checks there rather than holding short of the runway - it's very hard to place and hold a 4 ship right in the middle of everything and I think we might create traffic jams quite often with that solution.

So I'd rather have a chance to park at last chance, check everyone, make pretakeoff checks, then contact ATC, get clearance on Y and then have a minimum time holding short and get cleared on the runway as soon as ATC can accomodate us.

As a note, we do this in real life as well at Brussels south. The run up aprons is not ideal and we do our pretakeoff checks before leaving the parking spot, which is very close to the hold short as well. That way, ATC can clear us right away if they can and we don't delay on the run up in an airport full of Ryan air big boys :)

So if I may I'd recommend to use last chance at K2 as often as possible