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8values / 8values.github.io

The 8values political quiz
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Question 56: Bias in term? #45

Closed ghost closed 6 years ago

ghost commented 7 years ago

Question 56 reads "Same-sex marriage should be legal." This inadequately represents those who oppose the adoption of same-sex marriage as such, since most do not believe that it should be illegal, but rather that the terms "same-sex" and "marriage" are a contradiction in terms.

The question should read "Same-sex marriage should be legally recognized."

brmbrmcar commented 6 years ago

The real problem is for people who oppose marriage altogether.

(Also I hate to say this here but anyone who really thinks that 'same-sex' and 'marriage' contradict is an idiot in the kindest possible terms)

ghost commented 6 years ago

Glad to know I'm an idiot. See you on the interwebs.

On Dec 3, 2017 17:10, "brmbrmcar" notifications@github.com wrote:

The real problem is for people who oppose marriage altogether.

(Also I hate to say this here but anyone who really thinks that 'same-sex' and 'marriage' contradict is an idiot in the kindest possible terms)

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Berkmann18 commented 6 years ago

@brmbrmcar Agreed, same-sex isn't an opposing term to marriage which is literally just a contracted union between two people.

TristanBomb commented 6 years ago

Agreed. There's no contradiction here - if you don't believe same-sex marriage should be legally recognized, you implicitly believe that it should be illegal. Closing.

ghost commented 6 years ago

I very much beg to differ.

There is a difference between "legal" and "legally recognized". Illegal means you shouldn't do that. Legally unrecognized means the state doesn't say it's a thing. An example: If walked into the local JoP office and filled out papers to marry my car, the clerk at the desk would look at me funny and throw away the papers after I left, but I wouldn't be arrested: it's not illegal to marry a car; it's*legally unrecognized. Marrying my cat is not illegal because it's not a thing.

I (being the last backwards-assed Christian Right hick numbskull still active on GitHub) do not think that gay marriage should be illegal. I personally don't believe same-sex relationships should be illegal -- that sure as hell isn't the government's job. I just don't think that "gay" and "marriage" are compatible terms.

If you disagree with me (which you very obviously do), I'm not going to force you to change your mind. First, I can't; second, that would be a fabulous dick move. But I'm clarifying the position that I and people of like mind hold.

And since this is a test of political values held and not an attempt to foist one's values on other people through clever wordplay, it would be in the best interest of your project to change the wording of the question to make it less misleading.

On Feb 5, 2018 00:00, "Tristan" notifications@github.com wrote:

Closed #45 https://github.com/8values/8values.github.io/issues/45.

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ghost commented 6 years ago

Dammit, Gmail reply, stop putting carriage returns in weird places.

brmbrmcar commented 6 years ago

If it isn't a thing it can't be legal, or illegal.

ghost commented 6 years ago

Exactly, and since marriage traditionalists like myself believe the terms "homosexual" and "marriage" contradict and that everyone else is misdefining marriage, they believe it shouldn't be legally recognized. That's why if you read publications by such groups, you'll typically see the phrase "gay 'marriage'", complete with internal quotes.

Again, I do not expect you to agree with me. I do not even expect you to find my position intelligent (though I of course think it is).

I am merely stating what my position is and saying that the 8values test as it stands misrepresents it.

Please reword the question.

On Feb 5, 2018 09:55, "brmbrmcar" notifications@github.com wrote:

If it isn't a thing it can't be legal, or illegal.

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brmbrmcar commented 6 years ago

Logically from that though you'd put disagree, because it can't be legal or any part of the law at all.

ghost commented 6 years ago

"Legal" implies "legally permitted", not "legally recognized". I personally don't care whether two men jump a broomstick in their backyard and then sodomize each other all night; the question is whether the state should accept that relationship as meeting the criteria for marriage. It's legal; whether it should be legally recognized is up for grabs.

I don't see why it's so hard to add a dozen characters to that question. This is JavaScript; there's no compiler to break, is there?

On Feb 6, 2018 09:51, "brmbrmcar" notifications@github.com wrote:

Logically from that though you'd put disagree, because it can't be legal or any part of the law at all.

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brmbrmcar commented 6 years ago

Well I couldn't change it anyway.

ghost commented 6 years ago

Fair.

Should probably just make a pull request at this point.

On Feb 6, 2018 16:50, "brmbrmcar" notifications@github.com wrote:

Well I couldn't change it anyway.

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