Pass the targeted player into the ACF_PreBeginScanning hook call

[OctothorpeObelus]

Passes the player being targeted to the hook that is run to check if we're allowed to scan. This will allow servers more control and filtering over what the player is allowed to scan since the feature can be very intrusive.

[OctothorpeObelus]

This doesn't change the behavior or logic of the scanner in any way, it just allows server owners more control over the scanning tool as a whole when more details are passed in like this. The tool already supports servers blocking its function, so I figured why not expand on it.

[marchc1]

I personally see this as a bad idea; I can't really think of a valid reason beyond some "dont let admins be scanned" type of thing. Personally would say no to this because I see this as encouraging "don't let certain people be scannable" or "warn people when being scanned", both of which defeat the entire purpose of this tool, which is to help self-regulate competitive play among everyone...

I do want to make the scanner less ESP-y though, I have something already made that will hide the entire world and all entities that aren't being scanned. Probably the best solution to making it less like a "free know where the other person is" kind of thing. I'll probably push a PR for it later this weekend, and add it as a toggle (by default off?) for server owners.

[OctothorpeObelus]

We can already limit it to admins with what is already passed in, not that that's the point of it. This is more from a standpoint of allowing server owners to run their server how they want, and in my case, my players are not fond of this in its current state, to say the least. I see no harm in allowing server owners to gatekeep this tool. If you don't like how they control it, play on a different server.

[TwistedTail]

Why would they gatekeep it? Who would they be gatekeeping it from?

[OctothorpeObelus]

I'm not sure what others would do with it, but in my case specifically we were planning to limit it to our permissions system. We have grantable permissions that players can give each other for physgun, use, tool, and damage. The plan was to lock it behind one of those categories so it is consentual, but we can't do that unless we can check the targeted party.

[textstack]

I'd just like to say that this is an MIT licensed project, so you've legally already agreed to allow anyone and everyone to use and modify this to their heart's content, including defeating the purpose of anything they want. There's no reason to start arbitrarily restricting things now just because you may not agree with what people might do with it, especially when this change is so small, and especially when it's already technically possible to do with other methods.

[wrefgtzweve]

We can already limit it to admins with what is already passed in, not that that's the point of it. This is more from a standpoint of allowing server owners to run their server how they want, and in my case, my players are not fond of this in its current state, to say the least. I see no harm in allowing server owners to gatekeep this tool. If you don't like how they control it, play on a different server.

what do they not like about it in this "current state"? can you be more specific?

[OctothorpeObelus]

The biggest complaint I've seen is that it gives away the locations of every critical module inside the vehicle. I understand that it is made to prevent cheating, but on a casual server all it enables is the ruining of any encounter with a vehicle if they always know exactly where to shoot because they can just peer at every component at will. I like the thought of this tool being something a "referee" might use to validate a more competitive fight.

[OctothorpeObelus]

Don't get me wrong, I love this feature and I think it's really cool, I just wish that we as server owners had some more control over it.

[TwistedTail]

I understand that it is made to prevent cheating, but on a casual server all it enables is the ruining of any encounter with a vehicle if they always know exactly where to shoot because they can just peer at every component at will. I like the thought of this tool being something a "referee" might use to validate a more competitive fight.

Honestly, it just sounds like people are taking casual encounters too competitively. While it's fair to argue that server owners should have a choice on what they want on their server or not, the latest hook added to this feature should completely solve that. If you don't want it, you just disable people from spectating. However, allowing certain people to not be spectated by others breaks the purpose of this feature. You may not always have staff on the server, when you do it's really simple to spawn a slightly different dupe that may not get people in trouble. It allows virtually anyone to report troublemakers and exploiters by providing them an anonymous scanner. Like I said, if someone's worried about an invisible eye peeking at their builds without them knowing they're either taking the game way too seriously or are definitively hiding something.

[SurgeDivision]

I understand that it is made to prevent cheating, but on a casual server all it enables is the ruining of any encounter with a vehicle if they always know exactly where to shoot because they can just peer at every component at will. I like the thought of this tool being something a "referee" might use to validate a more competitive fight.

Honestly, it just sounds like people are taking casual encounters too competitively. While it's fair to argue that server owners should have a choice on what they want on their server or not, the latest hook added to this feature should completely solve that. If you don't want it, you just disable people from spectating. However, allowing certain people to not be spectated by others breaks the purpose of this feature. You may not always have staff on the server, when you do it's really simple to spawn a slightly different dupe that may not get people in trouble. It allows virtually anyone to report troublemakers and exploiters by providing them an anonymous scanner. Like I said, if someone's worried about an invisible eye peeking at their builds without them knowing they're either taking the game way too seriously or are definitively hiding something.

I think you may have forgotten that competitive doesn't always equate to a lack of fun. I personally find that your choice of words, "casual encounter", are being used to insinuate people are taking a videogame too seriously. When in fact, I think this change without regulation is imposing a similar feeling.

Server owners / Devs should have the access to restrict it how they see fit. I can understand that allowing such restrictions may lead to potential biases imparted on people within a given community. However, I would argue servers with abusive staff shouldn't be given too much of the attention in this matter. Allowing the negative side of a community to shift your judgement on the positive side of a community isn't always the best answer. If staff are being abusive with permissions not letting players use the scanner is the least of their worries.

I find this tool very useful, and I think it has its place in community servers or other. But not giving server owners the ability to change these permissions doesn't give any room for owners to make their own decisions. Which, as stated earlier, gives a similar feeling to this competitive nature you're actively trying to remove.

[TwistedTail]

I personally find that your choice of words, "casual encounter", are being used to insinuate people are taking a videogame too seriously.

If something as simple as being able to know where ammunition and fuel are inside someone else's build is causing this concern from one side of the community, I very much believe that's the case.

When in fact, I think this change without regulation is imposing a similar feeling.

Mind elaborating on this one?

Server owners / Devs should have the access to restrict it how they see fit. I can understand that allowing such restrictions may lead to potential biases imparted on people within a given community. However, I would argue servers with abusive staff shouldn't be given too much of the attention in this matter.

The pressure doesn't exactly come from the staff in this case but from their players. Staff is already capable of restricting players from using the scanner, which would easily allow this to be an admin only tool if they so desire.

Allowing the negative side of a community to shift your judgement on the positive side of a community isn't always the best answer.

As such, I have to consider which side is each decision affecting. Further expanding the reach of the hook so some people only allow their buddies to peep their views would only benefit what I view as the negative side of the community.

If staff are being abusive with permissions not letting players use the scanner is the least of their worries.

I agree.

I find this tool very useful, and I think it has its place in community servers or other. But not giving server owners the ability to change these permissions doesn't give any room for owners to make their own decisions. Like I said above, they already have room to mess with this feature.

Which, as stated earlier, gives a similar feeling to this competitive nature you're actively trying to remove.

I don't understand how that's the case.

[SurgeDivision]

I personally find that your choice of words, "casual encounter", are being used to insinuate people are taking a videogame too seriously.

If something as simple as being able to know where ammunition and fuel are inside someone else's build is causing this concern from one side of the community, I very much believe that's the case.

When in fact, I think this change without regulation is imposing a similar feeling.

Mind elaborating on this one?

Server owners / Devs should have the access to restrict it how they see fit. I can understand that allowing such restrictions may lead to potential biases imparted on people within a given community. However, I would argue servers with abusive staff shouldn't be given too much of the attention in this matter.

The pressure doesn't exactly come from the staff in this case but from their players. Staff is already capable of restricting players from using the scanner, which would easily allow this to be an admin only tool if they so desire.

Allowing the negative side of a community to shift your judgement on the positive side of a community isn't always the best answer.

As such, I have to consider which side is each decision affecting. Further expanding the reach of the hook so some people only allow their buddies to peep their views would only benefit what I view as the negative side of the community.

If staff are being abusive with permissions not letting players use the scanner is the least of their worries.

I agree.

I find this tool very useful, and I think it has its place in community servers or other. But not giving server owners the ability to change these permissions doesn't give any room for owners to make their own decisions. Like I said above, they already have room to mess with this feature.

Which, as stated earlier, gives a similar feeling to this competitive nature you're actively trying to remove.

I don't understand how that's the case.

In card games where you play with the intention of winning, imagine allowing anyone to review the entirety of it before playing. There's usually a referee for that. Otherwise, your opponent knows exactly what you're working with, and what you're able to do. Yes, you can call that competitive. But, as stated earlier, that doesn't inherently mean a lack of fun, or that cheating is involved. This entire attitude of "you cannot be competitive without being a cheater", or "you're taking it too seriously' is very black and white, and it doesn't account for the many other reasons people have a distaste towards this feature.

When I insinuated a similar feeling, I was contrasting it with the suggestion that people are taking the game too seriously. You suggest people take the game too seriously for not wanting all of their cards shown, so to speak. But in your attempt to do this, you're taking it very seriously as well. Almost too seriously, if you ask me. They're just casual encounters, after all.

Allowing the option for permission systems to further control the scanner is an addition that doesn't negatively impact anyone who chooses not to use it. From what I understand, the idea of the permission system would allow players to make their own decisions and choose who can scan their stuff, not the other way around. It wouldn't be an admin only allowing their buddies to scan everyone else's stuff. Again, this isn't a change everyone has to be forced to use.

[OctothorpeObelus]

I think that we are all perhaps overthinking the weight of this. It is one additional argument being passed into a completely optional hook that will affect almost nobody who doesn't know it's there as a player. And if it does affect them, it will be made very clear since it will print out why you aren't allowed to scan. I'm struggling to understand how this is such a polarizing issue for such a miniscule addition.

[TwistedTail]

As I pointed out, and confirmed above, it's only polarizing because of unnecessary competitiveness. It's not a game of cards, knowing the layout of someone else's vehicle is irrelevant when they also know yours. It won't be a deciding factor if you can't make use of that knowledge.

Personally, I won't be accepting the PR because the use cases for it are no different than giving PP to your friends. And even then, that just looks like an excuse for people that don't want eyes inside their builds, for whatever reason they may have. In my many years involved in this community, the only people obsessed with that were the ones that were eventually caught exploiting and were promptly excluded from mainstream servers.

[marchc1]

A lot of things got brought up that I would've just said myself if I saw this earlier, so I don't have a ton to add here, but...

@SurgeDivision

This entire attitude of "you cannot be competitive without being a cheater", or "you're taking it too seriously' is very black and white, and it doesn't account for the many other reasons people have a distaste towards this feature.

I come from a community filled with very over-competitive clans who have been silently cheating for years. My motivations for creating this come from wanting to give all people, admin or user, the ability to anonymously, and at any time, scan someones contraption for exploits/illegalities. As Twisted said, I've been here for nearly 7-8 years (unfortunately), and everyone who's been super obsessed with keeping their builds private were caught cheating.

Anonymous, spontaneous and free-to-all are all key aspects to why the scanner works:

• Anonymous scanning ensures that the person being watched doesn't know they're being watched and by who, and therefore can't despawn to avoid being found out.
• Spontaneous scanning, combined with the anonymity, ensures that at any point in time, you could be being watched, and therefore should never cheat.
• Free-to-all ensures that it's not just the staff who have this ability and doesn't gate-keep it away from the general public, because the staff of the server may be incompetent/biased.

You remove any of these, and in my opinion the scanners purpose is defeated.

@OctothorpeObelus

We have grantable permissions that players can give each other for physgun, use, tool, and damage. The plan was to lock it behind one of those categories so it is consentual, but we can't do that unless we can check the targeted party.

Consentual scanning breaks both anonymous and spontaneous scanning. Ruins the purpose of the scanner. Exploiters in the past would get asked to spawn something for approval and would just spawn the legal version.

@SurgeDivision

Allowing the negative side of a community to shift your judgement on the positive side of a community isn't always the best answer.

If you are someone who does not like your contraption being scanned, and genuinely don't cheat, I apologize that a large amount of bad apples have ruined that for you. I won't accuse you of anything, even if almost everyone I've met who has this mentality has been a cheater. But that should not be a reason to restrict the scanner in a community that has a very high amount of cheaters/exploiters. Secrecy is not a thing in this game as is (there are plenty of ways you can look through someones stuff without official methods). The implementation of a scanner in base ACF-3 just stops gatekeeping from the general public, in a similar way that GG5 was gatekeeping turrets from people.

I am open to other suggestions that could make the scanner less abusable in combat.