Make the patcher copy folders that have a certain named pattern

[snouz]

My idea is that if you add a specific name in an integrated folder, for example MoguriMain_integrated, the patcher would automatically copy it to FFIX, and remove the "_integrated" in the name

This would allow projects that want to bundle Memoria to just have the patcher in their zip, and clicking it would copy their own projects there, with minimal human intervention (no need to find the right folder, extract...)

[barkermn01]

it would also need to update the memoria.ini file, but should be possible, I would look at possibly using an archive type setup with multiple mod folders inside it so people can create mod pack installers?

Would you like me to look into it?

[faospark]

This would allow projects that want to bundle Memoria to just have the patcher in their zip, and clicking it would copy their own projects there, with minimal human intervention (no need to find the right folder, extract...)

why bundle patcher though ? can it not be a bat file ?

[barkermn01]

why bundle patcher though ? can it not be a bat file ?

a .bat file is not trusted by anyone but people who know how to read them, and even less so by Anti-Viruses when they are downloading &/ extracting files. it does not look very complete does opening up command prompts we have a loverly UI when using it why not make a nice UI for setup, and if people want to build mod packs give them the ability to within having janky hacked together things.

So to support a .bat we would still have to code into the patcher for the bat file to invoke it because there is no way the .bat file is writing a datastore file with options set inside it. then since we would have to be coding a proper solution anyway might as well get it in line with the new styles and make it feal uniform.

[snouz]

This would allow projects that want to bundle Memoria to just have the patcher in their zip, and clicking it would copy their own projects there, with minimal human intervention (no need to find the right folder, extract...)

why bundle patcher though ? can it not be a bat file ?

I don't see the added value of a bat file, when memoria patcher is already moving and copying files around by itself?

[faospark]

why bundle patcher though ? can it not be a bat file ?

a .bat file is not trusted by anyone but people who know how to read them, and even less so by Anti-Viruses when they are downloading &/ extracting files. it does not look very complete does opening up command prompts we have a loverly UI when using it why not make a nice UI for setup, and if people want to build mod packs give them the ability to within having janky hacked together things.

So to support a .bat we would still have to code into the patcher for the bat file to invoke it because there is no way the .bat file is writing a datastore file with options set inside it. then since we would have to be coding a proper solution anyway might as well get it in line with the new styles and make it feal uniform.

perhaps i did not phrase my response that well. i understand you point. i thought the idea was much more like case use for small projects. :)

[faospark]

This would allow projects that want to bundle Memoria to just have the patcher in their zip, and clicking it would copy their own projects there, with minimal human intervention (no need to find the right folder, extract...)

why bundle patcher though ? can it not be a bat file ?

I don't see the added value of a bat file, when memoria patcher is already moving and copying files around by itself?

Noted. I didn't mean to suggest that a batch file is an alternative to your idea. Rather, my thought process was this: if a modder has a project or mod and simply wants to inject or transfer its contents directly into the game root, it's not that difficult to automate with a batch file. This is part of my own workflow for my mods, but it seems that's not the case here, so let me elaborate.

A few thoughts come to mind:

First, is there a real use case for bundling Memoria's patcher (the main installer) with someone’s project? Not long ago, Moguri had an installer with a version of Memoria, TheMighty bundled Memoria with his project, and Echo-S had its own installer linking to the patcher. However, having multiple patchers with the same name across different projects might confuse users. This could partly explain why Memoria, despite being both the engine and mod manager, is still relatively obscure. Over-all its weird that The Patcher is included in mods.. Say for example, can you imagine something like the 7th Heaven installer being bundled with another project....

Another point is that it might undermine the mod catalog unless the catalog itself is on the way out. Bundling patchers with individual mods could lead to modders and users neglecting the catalog altogether. A modder could easily package their mod with a patcher, and users might prefer these bundled mods out of convenience, bypassing the catalog entirely.

Lastly, there’s the potential for bad actors. Someone could repackage existing mods, make slight changes, and release it under a different name—perhaps even call it something like “FF9: Remake” in another language. This ecosystem, including the mod catalog and Nexus, is vulnerable to this. A person could bundle several mods into one folder, set the memoria.ini to read-only, and configure the game to skip the launcher altogether. They wouldn't even need the official installer since it’s already included. Furthermore, say for example, another voice mod that is not echo-s and shall remain nameless... does this.

Don’t get me wrong—I’m just thinking about the possibilities this opens up. I could be wrong, but we should consider whether this would truly be beneficial or if it risks opening Pandora’s box. While it may work well for a few projects, it also provides an easy path for those with bad intentions.

[barkermn01]

@faospark you raise some very good points,

is there a real use case for bundling Memoria's patcher (the main installer) with someone’s project,

My aim is to ensure that our installer is used exclusively, regardless of the project. Although this is a long-term goal, the first version will simply be a setup

Not long ago, Moguri had an installer with a version of Memoria, TheMighty bundled Memoria with his project, and Echo-S had its own installer linking to the patcher

This is another reason to standardize our installer to avoid confusion. Regardless of the mod being shipped, the Memoria installer should always be our official installer signed the same way we sign the patcher now.

Another point is that it might undermine the mod catalog unless the catalog itself is on the way out.

Hopefully not because the mod manager should still attempt to update mods even if installed via the installer, helping to reduce this risk,

There are some aspects that are beyond our control within the Modding community. Whether or not a mod manager is used, people can still download manually and add malicious code to mods a trick users into installing the modified version, including utilizing batch files. If someone distributes a compromised version of Memoria, we can’t completely prevent it. However, my proposal aims to mitigate this risk. By having a uniform installer that attempts to download a signed version when online, similar to how the patcher is currently signed, we can help prevent malicious modifications. Our installer will pull from our GitHub Releases.

My master plan

Please note these are just my initial idea's on what i would like I'm working with @SamsamTS and @snouz to build this the way we all think is the correct way we might stop and never hit stage 3 i don't know yet.

Stage 1) Build a setup tool that checks if it's online if so download and use the latest patcher from this GitHub Repo,

Stage 2) Add support for mods to be shipped with the setup file (Memoria_Setup_Mods folder) with a instructions file, (JSON example for ease) i may turn it into a binary file format with some verification to stop people just tampering with the files.

 {
 "mods":[
    {
        "name":"Alternate Fantasy 9",
        "folder": "af9"
    }
 ]
 }

The installer will check for Memoria_Setup_Mods/af9 folder will copy it to the Memoria install location named Alternate Fantasy 9, add the folder to the memoria.ini file that will also be shipped in the installer for if offline or downloaded from GitHub if it's online.

Stage 3) Check the catalogue for the mod name, and the ID, verify them maybe even have a hash tree of the files inside the mod folder.

• if it's not there warn people your installing a mod that is not part of the catalogue only do this if you trust the creator,
• if not online warn them that mods can't be verified make sure they trust the creator.
• if they are online and the mod is found in the catalogue then download it from the catalogue. This also means people creating installers like Moguri, Echo-S ect don't have to build a new installer Everytime they update there mod or Memoria update the installer will do it. Tsunamods Installer actually downloaded the Memoria.Patcher from GitHub it was @SamsamTS who built it but it broken when we moved to using a Signed Installer

• Create a tool within Memoria that generates the necessary files for a repack. This tool would prompt users to select from their list of installed mods, then then build the setup package accordingly.

  I hope this clears up any confusion and makes it clear I'm trying my best to make this as secure as possible.

[faospark]

Thank you for responding @barkermn01, much appreciated. Don’t get me wrong, I see the intent is good, but I also think it's necessary to ask the hard questions. So here we go.

At this point, the installer is pretty much standardized. It has been for a while—it’s just that past devs tended to treat it as a dependency rather than what it actually is: The Engine, Launcher, and Mod Manager.

The confusion didn’t arise because there were multiple installers; it occurred because projects treated Memoria as a side dependency and prioritized their own project names. We are now working with a much more capable tool compared to before. To give an example, look at the 7th Heaven mod manager (which also installs FFNx). Out of the 124 mods published on Nexus for Final Fantasy VII, not one contains an installer for the 7th Heaven mod manager. Instead, they ask you to download the manager and install it separately.

Which leads to my first rhetorical question: Why are we even allowing the patcher to look like a minor dependency and not the main requirement for the mods? I think you’ve provided an answer, but it complicates things just to get one result.

The modding paradigm is straightforward: if a mod manager exists, you download and install it first. Then, you download mods from any source and install them according to the mod manager’s rules. For all intents and purposes, the proposed idea is exactly the same as what some mods have done with their installers—just possibly without the .exe. It’s essentially an installer for a project, regardless of how anyone wants to complicate it. It feels like a step back, not forward, in my humble opinion.

Upon your further elaboration, @barkermn01, I see this is for a very specific use case, which I appreciate you revealing.

... This also means people creating installers like Moguri, Echo-S ect don't have to build a new installer Everytime they update there mod or Memoria update the installer will do it...

First, I personally think @snouz would not want to revert to a separate installer, given the amount of time and effort they had to invest in packaging Moguri along with its other two components, plus setting up download services for it to be compliant and downloadable via the mod manager. Unless I’m wrong, I don’t see that happening.

Now, returning to the matter at hand: Since no other mods in the catalog, Nexus, or general Final Fantasy IX modding ecosystem come with an installer, we’re left with just one—Echo-S. So, here’s s question: Is it impossible for this project to be bundled as a Memoria Mod Package? It’s just a zip file with the required files. If it has other dependencies, you can still use your installer and just instruct people to ensure they have the latest Memoria installed—like the case of any other mod that uses a manager. Isn’t that the simpler approach?

I hope I don’t come across as antagonistic. If we are going to objectively assess the situation, we are trying to create a solution to a predicament that isn’t necessarily a Memoria problem.

Are we willing to add layers of complexity now and in the future, rather than simply ask people to install the latest version of Memoria and the voice mod on top of it?

This is also adding another layer where the entire Memoria project will adjust specifically for one project. It will create complications, as elaborated, with featured mods being assigned IDs for integrity checks, requiring an almost always-online system just to verify if a mod is featured or not.

If you guys aren’t busy, I’d also like to hear the thoughts of @Tirlititi and @Albeoris on this.

[SamsamTS]

At this point, the installer is pretty much standardized. It has been for a while—it’s just that past devs tended to treat it as a dependency rather than what it actually is: The Engine, Launcher, and Mod Manager.

Amen to that. Let Memoria be the mod manager it's meant to be. I said it before but I'll say it again here, I'm against letting people distribute Memoria with their own projects. I'm in favor of having one and unique official source for Memoria.

Now something I've been thinking that could be good to make manual installation easier (in case downloading from the manager is not a possibility, which is the case for some people) is to have the launcher accept drag and drops. People would just have to drop the archive of the mod directly onto the launcher window and the mod would be installed and activated automatically.

[Tirlititi]

Agreed with faospark, and Samsam's idea of drag-and-drop, which can also be useful in some situations.

[firehawkx]

Having co-created AtmaWeapon (mod installer for FF6), I agree with the previous few messages that it is usually way easier for casual users to just have a single mod manager/installer... Of course advanced user that really do not want to use it can always do everything manually - but changing the patcher to allow for distribution of a single mod with just a tiny part while excluding the manager itself seems to be opening the door to a lot more abuse and confusion -- and I think it will ultimately confuse the more casual players that would have otherwise enjoyed having the mod installer many optional choices.

[barkermn01]

Well to start with here is the basic installer, it required the new Patcher, so currently i have the patcher and the installer on my Repo for people to test with. i have a draft PR, but i had already done most of the work for this hence it's here. feedback would be nice.

https://github.com/barkermn01/Memoria/releases/tag/test

If we're all happy with it i will update change stuff to use this repo ready for release.