Moral questions in social justice: do programmers have a moral responsibility to unionize?

[AlexChesser]

By not unionizing, are programmers not the captains of the “fuck you, I got mine” club?

We’re doing great. Super super great. It is pretty clear that others aren’t.

With the Amazon vote having been cast last night, we may not know the results for a while, but for every one of those workers there is the fear and possibility that they vote yes and their warehouse finds a way to shut down.

They’re risking their asses, their incomes, their families... what are we doing?

If amazon’s programmers unionized, does any of us believe that they’d just shut down the store?

Arguments for or against programmers benefiting directly from a union aside, do we owe it to the warehouse workers to put our rich asses on the line for them?

Programmers are among the most powerful people in society, look at the top 20 richest people in the world, what proportion of the, are programmers? Elon Musk, Sergey Brin, Larry Page, Larry Ellison, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates. We’ve got the best capitalists among our number.

Alternatively, think about our open-source side. Linus Thorvals gave away Linux and it is now the backbone of our technology infrastructure representing probably trillions of dollars in value to humanity (google, Amazon, who else all use Linux in the enterprise)

Think about Ton Roosendaal, the man who gave away blender. How many artists are employed working with blender? How many stories have come into our homes and enriched our lives enabled solely because some scrappy little indie was able to have access to the tools of creation?

Is taking the risk of unionizing something that our better angels should do? Not for us. In aggregate, we’re doing pretty fucking fine thank you very much... but does any one of us not know deep in our hearts that if the international programmers union stood in solidarity with the Alabama Walmart cashiers union that we could bring the Waltons to their knees?

There are cases of Walmart shutting down a store completely in the event of a union ratifying. Would they shut down their website over the same? What would happen to the value of their stock if they tried to shut down their website? How would the world change if programmers said en-masse “treat people with dignity or else”? What sort of pressure could the programmers union exert on lawmakers if we stood together and said we’re going to flip the switch unless everyone gets paid a living wage, unless the social reforms we know we need to see come online, unless we solve for climate change?

We’ve already changed the world. I mean, not me, but programmers in general.

We’re still doing it... look at crypto! How many trillion as it worth today? How many billion will it be worth tomorrow, how many “what’s the number bigger than a trillion?” Will it be worth the day after that?! Is NFT about to revolutionize and democratize the art world? Copyright?

Does anyone not catch themselves thinking from time to time, “holy shit, I wonder if Elon Musk is really going to transform humanity into an interstellar species?” Does anyone doubt that Bill and Melinda Gates are going to eliminate malaria globally within our lifetimes?

Programmers have changed the world, could we do it again in a union?

Wanna get real fucking crazy? Could a programmer’s union end global war by threatening to turn off the servers at ExxonMobil? Probably not, but let’s ask the big questions now and dial it back to “reasonable and achievable” later.

Does any of us really doubt that the world would be a much better place if programmers in aggregate started making demands?

cue the “look at me, I’m the captain now” meme

We’ve changed the world before, who doesn’t think we can do it again?

[AlexChesser]

I’m going to post this to hacker news to hopefully get a discussion going, gather some high level points for and against and eventually compile my position into a video / podcast. (edit posted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26633517)

This repo is currently licensed under MIT, if you are a content creator or blogger, please feel free to write your position on your own blog / channel, please feel free to comment here, or on hacker news (I’ll be watching the thread) if a notable discussion pops up elsewhere, please let me know.

[AlexChesser]

If we stuck together would “Captain’s log, star-date 2100” really be that unrealistic? Could a programmers union be the first step on the road to founding the federation? Starfleet?

If Musk takes us to Mars, do we want our future to be Star Trek or Warhammer 40k?

Could we end world hunger by telling the NYSE that we’re turning off the servers until they invest in ending it? Good luck finding the on switch business-bros.

[AlexChesser]

is it possible that right wing Senator Bernie Sanders was wrong? That is isn't "not me, us" but instead "not me, you" or "not you, them"?

[gratuz]

I think this is a really good question and also very timely. Software Engineers have been riding a wave of employability - where employers have been throwing benefits at them just to hold on to them a little longer (free breakfast, catered lunch, regular swag, stock options....). But as software eats the world, programmers are becoming ubiquitous and tools suchs as Shopify, Weebly, and the no-code movement in general are eroding the level of skill a developer needs to stand something up.

I think 10 years from now software engineering will become more of a necessary job, in line with manufacturing and custodial services, than the type of genius level inspiration that propelled Gates and Musk to fame. Coupled with work-from-anywhere, unionization might be the way to ensure that reasonable benefits are provided.

On the other hand, bring it up too early (and coupled with immigration law as it is) Amazon, Google, etc. might decide to move more operations to India, Malaysia etc.

[omac777]

I don't think the issue is necessarily unions worldwide to solve the disparity between rich and poor.

I think governments and borders somehow use banks and different sovereign currencies and their differences between them to leverage economic advantage to those controlling multi-national companies.

I think individuals need to agree to: -using a borderless currency used worldwide outside of the influence of governments -using the same "going rate" for products/work done worldwide on the said agreed upon borderless currency -using the same "going rate" for buying a house worldwide on the said agreed upon borderless currency -using the same 'going rate" for buying food worldwide on the said agreed upon borderless currency -using the same 'going rate" for buying energy worldwide on the said agreed upon borderless currency -if mult-national companies do not agree to the above terms, we should not buy their products and seek other suppliers who do. The buy has all the control to instrument and support such an economic and political system grows and replaces existing economic and political systems.

BORDERLESS CURRENCY GOING-RATES FOR ALL PRODUCTS. I believe the concept of some of it is held within "Fair-Trade" within the coffee and chocolate products, but I believe it needs to be a more broadly sweeping attempt of all skills/trades deciding to accept borderless currencies at the same going rate everywhere.

Dare I say Bitcoin has a chance at that. Its value at the moment is nothing to sneeze at. Governments should be embracing it rather than shunning it because it empowers it citizens. By shunning Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies, the governments demonstrate they do not serve the interests of their constituents and should be changed or replaced with representatives that do serve the interests of their constituents. Governments should be at the service of their people. If you feel oppressed by your government, they are not at your service and should be made to change.

Be a maker, sell your product, build something unique and sell it be it food, energy, household, house, automotive and accept Bitcoin as currency. We should agree to some rates worldwide so that we have equal footing everywhere. When we undercut one another with prices we don't serve ourselves the due respect worldwide. Everybody deserves a decent quality of life worldwide. Inflation is a man-made concept providing an excuse for profiteers to raise-prices. We all know it has to stop.

What am I saying? I don't think unions will solve the underlying issues, but unions could help all individuals regroup to influence positive change to solve the underlying issues worldwide. The biggest problem: governments worldwide are made complex using complex legal terms excluding the ability for common individuals to participate in changing them. We need to simplify governments everywhere empowering individuals everywhere to participate and change them. Don't let lawyers tell you that you cannot do that. They are no better than you. Don't let your government appointees tell you that you can't do that. They are there to serve you or to get kicked out and be replaced by somebody who will serve you.

Thank you for listening to my brain fart.

[AlexChesser]

Posted in a few subreddits to tepid reception at best, but was fortunate enough to get one wonderful response from someone in a construction union who said "hell yes".

Which got me thinking... there is a tech union out there already. Maybe I could reach out to them.

Sent a tweet to https://alphabetworkersunion.org/ ... maybe they've got some connections to people whose thinking on this is WAAAAYY further ahead than mine. I'd love to hear some thoughts from some people with lived experience who can help organize my thoughts and correct my misunderstandings. Fingers crossed.