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AntoPISA / MAME_SupportFiles

MAME Support Files (category, catver, series, version, etc.)
https://www.progettosnaps.net/
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arcade.ini: WAY too much machines #29

Closed ghost closed 1 month ago

ghost commented 1 month ago

Your file arcade.ini contains a whopping 35430 machines. (there aren't even so much gambling machines which are 43,8% of MAME's main list and are the biggest part of MAME)

There are MUCH less arcade machines in MAME: 12142 machines, which is 25,8% of MAME's main list.

My file is based on history.xml and you can find the machine types of category arcade here: https://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=types

Stats and INI file here. https://mame-licious.github.io/#machine_category

pie chart

machine_category

ghost commented 1 month ago

In addition arcade_BIOS.ini is wrong too: 35354 machines. This is another impossible number of arcade machines. There aren't just that many...

AntoPISA commented 1 month ago

Something doesn't add up for me: there are 40,558 machines currently included in MAME, 5,204 pertain to MESS, the rest I mark as "Arcade" (35,430) and 76 as BIOSes.

(35,430 + 5,204) - 76 = 40,558

I don't know how you do your calculations, everything looks correct to me, but I can always be wrong. When I have time I will also download these files of yours to compare with mine to discover any errors.

PS: arcade_BIOS.ini is correct (76 entries), arcade_NOBIOS.ini contains 35,354.

ghost commented 1 month ago

I attached a spreadsheet exported from my database. Those are all arcade games, sorted first by parent, then by clone. This is based on history.xml, a work of 25 years, each game is manually checked by it's manual or specifications to determine it's machine type.

arcade.zip

ghost commented 1 month ago

Something doesn't add up for me: there are 40,558 machines currently included in MAME, 5,204 pertain to MESS, the rest I mark as "Arcade" (35,430) and 76 as BIOSes.

That's completely wrong... MAME contains gambling machines, electronic machines, coin-up games which are non-arcade, ... Those are certainly not arcade machines. They are all in your arcade list.

You can't decide which machine type a machine has without using history.xml because there is no other way to do it. No other file or database or anything can tell you the exact machine type.

MESS doesn't exist anymore.

AntoPISA commented 1 month ago

We simply have a different approach. My calculations are based on this assumption: everything that is not MESS (so pcs, consoles, machines of various kinds) I consider to be a gaming machine, hence "arcade".

Anyway I download your spreadsheet and do some checking.

ghost commented 1 month ago

We simply have a different approach. My calculations are based on this assumption: everything that is not MESS (so pcs, consoles, machines of various kinds) I consider to be a gaming machine, hence "arcade".

Then you are the only person in the world who says a gambling machine is an "arcade" machine ;-) And then gaming history should erase its database of 25 years work, because AntoPISA says it's wrong :)

please note: there could be a very very little amount of arcade machines missing. history.xml is a work in progress...

ghost commented 1 month ago

PS: arcade_BIOS.ini is correct (76 entries), arcade_NOBIOS.ini contains 35,354.

I'm afraid not. There are 76 BIOS but some of them are not Arcade

Attached spreadsheet. Look at machine type column...

Example of BIOS which is a console BIOS. Some of the BIOSes are used by the software list machines and are certainly not arcade BIOSes.

console BIOS examples:

CD-i (Mono-I) (PAL) BIOS | 1995 | Philips | Console | cdibios 3DO BIOS |1993 |The 3DO Company |Console |3dobios

pinball BIOS examples:

Model 110 | 1978 | Game Plan | Pinball | gp_110 System 1 | 1977 | Gottlieb | Pinball | gts1

(<not available> is not added in gaming history yet)

bios.zip

AntoPISA commented 1 month ago

Then you are the only person in the world who says a gambling machine is an "arcade" machine ;-) And then gaming history should erase its database of 25 years work, because AntoPISA says it's wrong :)

Who ever said that!!! I am not saying it is wrong, since I do not think so; I repeat the approach is simply different. By "Arcade" I mean all Amusement Arcade or bar machines in which you have to insert a coin (or token) to play, including pinball or slots. I am not saying it is right, I simply think so; I respect your point of view so try to do the same with mine, thank you.

ghost commented 1 month ago

Who ever said that!!! I am not saying it is wrong, since I do not think so; I repeat the approach is simply different. By "Arcade" I mean all Amusement Arcade or bar machines in which you have to insert a coin (or token) to play, including pinball or slots. I am not saying it is right, I simply think so; I respect your point of view so try to do the same with mine, thank you.

  1. it makes no sense to distribute files with machines you think are correct while I give you proof by statistics and a gaming history website. An approach is correct or wrong. Yours is wrong. Reason: the rest of the world agrees it's the way I told you, in books, websites or game databases.
  2. If you put the gambling machines inside the "arcade" , then you litterally say gambling machines are arcade machines... The casino/gambling world has nothing to do with arcade games and certainly not with the golden age of arcade games. You won't find any gambling game in there.
  3. The BIOSes are also having other types then arcade only. Your files are wrong at that point too.
AntoPISA commented 1 month ago

Ok, you're right (and let's leave it at that).

ghost commented 1 month ago

Will the files be changed for next MAME version, since you agree your files are wrong? The correction for arcade_BIOS.ini is in the spreadsheet. The correction for all other "arcade" related files is in history.xml (the first line tells you the machine type of every machine or BIOS)

Gaming History's history is almost as old as MAME itself (since 1999). It's researched to the bare metal of things. There is little/no discussion about this possible. It's done by 1 person. I have nothing but the deepest respect for his work. That's why, after researching again, I always come to the conclusion there is no better source for game information.

I'm sorry if it looks like I don't respect your work, but that's not true. This case here is just wrong.

Closing this unresolved issue also shows you have no respect for my point of view :) So please, re-open and correct the files. It makes little sense to put your work on github if you don't allow or accept errors shown by other people.

ghost commented 1 month ago

In addition, also following machines don't belong in arcade either:

And some kiddie rides and photo booths too. (find them yourself)

So as you can see now (hopefully) your approach is not giving an arcade list at all. It basically contains a mix of several things. You call everything "arcade"... You won't find another living soul on earth who calls a jukebox, photo booth, console BIOS or a disc player an arcade machine :)

Universally accepted machine types that belong in arcade category.

https://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=types

AntoPISA commented 1 month ago

I already wrote you that you are right it is completely useless (and annoying) that you continue to write posts. I'll think later whether it's worth changing something. The discussion is closed.

ghost commented 1 month ago

I already wrote you that you are right it is completely useless (and annoying) that you continue to write posts. I'll think later whether it's worth changing something. The discussion is closed.

You speak in constant contradictions: if i'm right, then it's certainly worth changing anything. You either don't know good English or don't really know what you say. I hope it's the first :)

AntoPISA commented 1 month ago

As usual you are going on the offensive. I don't live constantly working on MAME, right now I am on a business trip and certainly can't fix these things. I already have an idea of ​​what to do, but I will do it when I can.

AntoPISA commented 1 month ago

Problem solved.