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Appsterdam is an open community-driven organization. This public repository contains all the knowledge used in the creation and running of Appsterdam.
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"Made in Appsterdam" #115

Open maggix opened 10 years ago

maggix commented 10 years ago

Hi everyone, a question for the Community. I am currently (finally) opening up the first beta of the app I have been working on, although not regularly, for a long time now. (Of course you are invited to it, although you may not be interested in the CRM topic http://www.contactic.al).

I was wondering if it's ok (and if you think it's interesting) if I put a "Made in Appsterdam" badge on the home page, in order to spread the word?

You can consider it a way to thank all the facilities that were put in place by Appsterdam that helped me in getting this far (the Peer Lab, the workhotel at A Lab, etc.), apart of course from volunteering (which I do, more or less often) and donations (amount depending on the success ;) ).

Of course maybe you want to do some "quality assurance" in order that no bad apps get featured? In that case I am welcome to discuss about this topic!

tross6 commented 10 years ago

Hi Giovanni--thanks for opening the topic! This is definitely interesting, and something people have talked about before.

It seems we would want to have some sort of quality assurance--not sure how that would work.

Would be great to hear others' ideas on this!

tross6 commented 10 years ago

Just getting back on this. Until we would figure out a larger scheme, everyone okay with Giovanni putting a "Made in Appsterdam" badge on his app home page? I think it's a great idea. @ElDragonRojo @tomvanarman @matteom @mattfeigal @ribeto @ticofab @g7morris @sgoodwin @FranciscaKapar @PlayfulPandas @spllr @olmageddon @mmeiborg? @magnusdahl1 @whakkee @brunokoga @erikr @SidelineNoob @judykitteh Others?

tross6 commented 10 years ago

And/or does anyone want to take on figuring out the program for something like this?

tomvanarman commented 10 years ago

I think it’s a great idea too. There are probably many other candidates for the “Made in Appsterdam” seal. Might need to develop some criteria for it’s use. I’d be happy to brainstorm with others on this. Cheers Tara and Giovanni!

On 09 May 2014, at 08:31, tross6 notifications@github.com wrote:

Just getting back on this. Until we would figure out a larger scheme, everyone okay with Giovanni putting a "Made in Appsterdam" badge on his app home page? I think it's a great idea. @ElDragonRojo @tomvanarman @matteom @mattfeigal @ribeto @ticofab . Martinus? (Can't find your handle for some reason.) Others?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

mxsasha commented 10 years ago

Actually, I've already done this in the about screen of a few of my apps :)

I can see how we would want some kind of process in place, so that the next titstare does not prominently feature an Appsterdam logo. However, on the other side nobody benefits from an overly bureaucratic process. Volunteer resources are already stretched.

I would also wonder whether a basic "made in Appsterdam" is not actually nominative use, which a trademark owner can not prevent. For example, I'm allowed to say I am writing this on a NS train, even though NS is a trademark. However, I would not be allowed to make an app called "NS train", because that would cause confusion with their trademark. On the website of my OV app, I have the logo's of all transit companies for which I have data, which in my understanding falls under nominative use as well.

Even considering nominative use, you may still be able to forbid the use of name or logo in association with certain products, if the mere association already degrades the Appsterdam name. But I've never delved into trademark law that deeply, and IANAL.

The Django trademark license may be an interesting example too. Note that most of this license refers to non-nominative use. For example, "Django" is a registered trademark, so my product named "Secure Django" is only allowed with permission from the trademark owner. Which in this case, they give under certain conditions. However, the mentioning of being a Django developer on my personal website is definitely nominative, and does not require any license or permission - as that page also documents.

In other words: before we come up with a fancy QA process, I recommend we consult a trademark lawyer to figure out what exactly is enforcable, and what is allowed regardless of permission of the trademark holder.

ticofab commented 10 years ago

I believe it's a cool idea too. I just wonder what the criteria could be and what would be the mutual benefits for both Appsterdam and the app-maker / publisher.

Roughly, I see three cases:

1. The Appsterdam community could become a sort of "quality assurance", like UTZ for organic food. The thing is, UTZ is paid for its services. The 'Made in Appsterdam' label could become a simple quality mark, that companies pay for. At that point it could in principle be accessible to anybody, not only people that are somehow connected to Appsterdam. This could be a way to monetise the Appsterdam efforts.

2. The 'Appsterdam' branding is only given to people that are somehow connected to Appsterdam. What could be the criteria? Having built it at the ALab? Having given a Guru Session? Having got drunk at Cafe Bax? Which jury should be nominated to assess whether the badge is applicable or not?

3. Anybody can display a 'Made in Appsterdam' badge if he wants to. I'm not sure if Appsterdam would want to go down that road. (give that, In this specific case, Erik and Giovanni's work is definitely of the finest quality)

On 9 May 2014 10:35, Erik Romijn notifications@github.com wrote:

Actually, I've already done this in the about screen of a few of my apps :)

I can see how we would want some kind of process in place, so that the next titstarehttp://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/09/the-worst-joke-in-technology.htmldoes not prominently feature an Appsterdam logo. However, on the other side nobody benefits from an overly bureaucratic process. Volunteer resources are already stretched.

I would also wonder whether a basic "made in Appsterdam" is not actually nominative use, which a trademark owner can not prevent. For example, I'm allowed to say I am writing this on a NS train, even though NS is a trademark. However, I would not be allowed to make an app called "NS train", because that would cause confusion with their trademark. On the website of my OV app, I have the logo's of all transit companies for which I have data, which in my understanding falls under nominative use as well.

Even considering nominative use, you may still be able to forbid the use of name or logo in association with certain products, if the mere association already degrades the Appsterdam name. But I've never delved into trademark law that deeply, and IANAL.

The Django trademark license https://www.djangoproject.com/trademarks/may be an interesting example too. Note that most of this license refers to non-nominative use. For example, "Django" is a registered trademark, so my product named "Secure Django" is only allowed with permission from the trademark owner. Which in this case, they give under certain conditions. However, the mentioning of being a Django developer on my personal website is definitely nominative, and does not require any license or permission - as that page also documents.

In other words: before we come up with a fancy QA process, I recommend we consult a trademark lawyer to figure out what exactly is enforcable, and what is allowed regardless of permission of the trademark holder.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Appsterdam/open/issues/115#issuecomment-42644404 .

http://famsterdamlife.com

mmeiborg commented 10 years ago

It’s a good idea, we have talked about this in the past and even have fantasized about a badge structure, e.g. in combination with an App Award Ceremony and bronze, silver and golden wings. As Appsterdam is a registered trade mark, there certainly are a few legal issues to be dealt with and granting usage would be subject to terms and conditions. But the rules would be simple though:

  1. you are a donator to appsterdam (as a volunteer or with a monthly fee).
  2. you submit your app to Appsterdam after it is accepted in the platform's app store.
  3. you sign for the conditions and terms and you will get your badge.

Thanks for bringing it up, it’s on the agenda again!

Martinus

On 10 mei 2014, at 15:18, ticofab notifications@github.com wrote:

I believe it's a cool idea too. I just wonder what the criteria could be and what would be the mutual benefits for both Appsterdam and the app-maker / publisher.

Roughly, I see three cases:

  1. The Appsterdam community could become a sort of "quality assurance", like UTZ for organic food. The thing is, UTZ is paid for its services. The 'Made in Appsterdam' label could become a simple quality mark, that companies pay for. At that point it could in principle be accessible to anybody, not only people that are somehow connected to Appsterdam. This could be a way to monetise the Appsterdam efforts.
  2. The 'Appsterdam' branding is only given to people that are somehow connected to Appsterdam. What could be the criteria? Having built it at the ALab? Having given a Guru Session? Having got drunk at Cafe Bax? Which jury should be nominated to assess whether the badge is applicable or not?
  3. Anybody can display a 'Made in Appsterdam' badge if he wants to. I'm not sure if Appsterdam would want to go down that road. (give that, In this specific case, Erik and Giovanni's work is definitely of the finest quality)

On 9 May 2014 10:35, Erik Romijn notifications@github.com wrote:

Actually, I've already done this in the about screen of a few of my apps :)

I can see how we would want some kind of process in place, so that the next titstarehttp://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/09/the-worst-joke-in-technology.htmldoes not prominently feature an Appsterdam logo. However, on the other side nobody benefits from an overly bureaucratic process. Volunteer resources are already stretched.

I would also wonder whether a basic "made in Appsterdam" is not actually nominative use, which a trademark owner can not prevent. For example, I'm allowed to say I am writing this on a NS train, even though NS is a trademark. However, I would not be allowed to make an app called "NS train", because that would cause confusion with their trademark. On the website of my OV app, I have the logo's of all transit companies for which I have data, which in my understanding falls under nominative use as well.

Even considering nominative use, you may still be able to forbid the use of name or logo in association with certain products, if the mere association already degrades the Appsterdam name. But I've never delved into trademark law that deeply, and IANAL.

The Django trademark license https://www.djangoproject.com/trademarks/may be an interesting example too. Note that most of this license refers to non-nominative use. For example, "Django" is a registered trademark, so my product named "Secure Django" is only allowed with permission from the trademark owner. Which in this case, they give under certain conditions. However, the mentioning of being a Django developer on my personal website is definitely nominative, and does not require any license or permission - as that page also documents.

In other words: before we come up with a fancy QA process, I recommend we consult a trademark lawyer to figure out what exactly is enforcable, and what is allowed regardless of permission of the trademark holder.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Appsterdam/open/issues/115#issuecomment-42644404 .

http://famsterdamlife.com — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

matteom commented 10 years ago

Personally I think there are already too many things on the table: quality assurance, badge structure, award ceremony, the "platform app store", all of which do not exist and will not for a lot of time. Hence this will never be done. And that's why it never happened, despite being an idea almost as old as Appsterdam itself.

IMO we should come up with something quick and simple, that will require a one time effort from Appsterdam and enable people to use it afterwards just by themselves (something like the licenses you see in open source software). Something you can react on when and if there is the need to. Spare the committees and the ceremonies for a day when there will be enough resources.

Also, since this is a good marketing opportunity for Appsterdam, I would not require people to be either a donor or a volunteer. People want to put a made in Appsterdam badge mainly as a thank you, to show it's done with the help of the community. Requiring being a donor or a volunteer will only result in maybe 2 or 3 apps that will have the badge, which benefits no one.

maggix commented 10 years ago

Hi everyone, thanks for you inputs. I am glad that this topic is in the back of everyone's mind, and I just want to say that burdens and bureaucracy are not what I advocate. I just brought this topic up because I thought it was cool to have a place to check out what appsterdammers build, but then again, everyone is good enough to advertise his/her own work.

So, as there's no problem (as I would expect) for putting a big thank you and acknowledgements to Appsterdam on my page, that's what I am doing. My app is now in Apple reviewers' hands on the App Store, so let's see what happens next. Time will tell :)

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Matteo Manferdini < notifications@github.com> wrote:

Personally I think there are already too many things on the table: quality assurance, badge structure, award ceremony, the "platform app store", all of which do not exist and will not for a lot of time. Hence this will never be done. And that's why it never happened, despite being an idea almost as old as Appsterdam itself.

IMO we should come up with something quick and simple, that will require a one time effort from Appsterdam and enable people to use it afterwards just by themselves (something like the licenses you see in open source software). Something you can react on when and if there is the need to. Spare the committees and the ceremonies for a day when there will be enough resources.

Also, since this is a good marketing opportunity for Appsterdam, I would not require people to be either a donor or a volunteer. People want to put a made in Appsterdam badge mainly as a thank you, to show it's done with the help of the community. Requiring being a donor or a volunteer will only result in maybe 2 or 3 apps that will have the badge, which benefits no one.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Appsterdam/open/issues/115#issuecomment-43056697 .

Giovanni Maggini Twitter: @maggix giovanni.maggini@gmail.com Skype:maggix04 IT +39 339 2239235 | NL +31 6 81 31 91 96