media attached to collecting events

[amgunderson]

Should this image show up on 319 specimens? http://arctos.database.museum/media/10498076 It is linked to collecting event 10971209 which is used by MSB hosts and parasites and UAM Ethnology. Can I delete the media link to the event so it does not show up on all the Ethnology records assigned to that event?

[amgunderson]

Or can we create a new event and add the ethnology records to it enmass?

[dustymc]

Should this image show up

Structurally yes (because https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/860), although I'm not sure what importance the event has to that particular image. (I guess it does show some birch trees.)

The relationship is event (with media)-->locality-->event (with specimens - http://arctos.database.museum/Locality.cfm?action=findCollEvent&locality_id=1080) so messing with the event won't get rid of it - you'd need to move the image's event to a new locality.

https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/865 will probably un-do that unless you change spec locality or etc.

@ccicero

[sharpphyl]

Looks like this issue is still open. I noticed today that on Locality 10000000, there are 76 images that have nothing to do with the 3,020 of our lots that now show these images because they are linked to "no higher geography recorded: no specific locality recorded." The images now appear on over 27,354 Arctos records from multiple museums. There's got to be a better way to link images to just the specimens or events where they belong. Do I have to create a new locality for my 3,020 lots and move them all to get rid of these images?

[dustymc]

create a new locality

I'll just auto-merge it - https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/865 (or http://handbook.arctosdb.org/documentation/locality.html#maintenance for a way to avoid that)

There's got to be a better way to link images to just the specimens or events where they belong.

I maintain that the linkage is important - photos of a locality enhance the value of other junk using that locality. That of course makes no sense when the locality is "we have absolutely no idea," and that's what this one is. A bunch of them have nothing to do with any locality, one of them apparently shows some unknown bushes, etc. And a bunch are linked to specimens which DO have useful locality data.

Perhaps we should remove the "% locality" media relationship(s) altogether - media ALWAYS has temporal data (it wasn't created tomorrow....), and localities purposefully avoid that.

@mkoo @ccicero help!

http://arctos.database.museum/MediaSearch.cfm?action=search&media_id=10003217,10003375,10003466,10006377,10008154,10008156,10008157,10008256,10008258,10499100,10004051,10005915,10006281,10006375,10008162,10008170,10008172,10008261,10008262,10008342,10000276,10003467,10007961,10008150,10008153,10008158,10008164,10008166,10008169,10003219,10003573,10004769,10007679,10008151,10008160,10008257,10008266,10008268,10008339,10002977,10004049,10004767,10004834,10007633,10008161,10008171,10008255,10008260,10008264,10008265,10008267,10008269,10008402,10004766,10005391,10006300,10006784,10007310,10008167,10008263,10008338,10002976,10003470,10003572,10004459,10004768,10008159,10008168,10008259,10008382,10004050,10006282,10008152,10008155,10008163,10008165

[campmlc]

It would make more sense to have any media associated with the collecting event, for the reason Dusty described. Localities change over time.

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 1:41 PM, dustymc notifications@github.com wrote:

create a new locality

I'll just auto-merge it - #865 https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/865 (or http://handbook.arctosdb.org/documentation/locality.html#maintenance for a way to avoid that)

There's got to be a better way to link images to just the specimens or events where they belong.

I maintain that the linkage is important - photos of a locality enhance the value of other junk using that locality. That of course makes no sense when the locality is "we have absolutely no idea," and that's what this one is. A bunch of them have nothing to do with any locality, one of them apparently shows some unknown bushes, etc. And a bunch are linked to specimens which DO have useful locality data.

Perhaps we should remove the "% locality" media relationship(s) altogether

• media ALWAYS has temporal data (it wasn't created tomorrow....), and localities purposefully avoid that.

@mkoo https://github.com/mkoo @ccicero https://github.com/ccicero help!

http://arctos.database.museum/MediaSearch.cfm?action=search& media_id=10003217,10003375,10003466,10006377,10008154, 10008156,10008157,10008256,10008258,10499100,10004051, 10005915,10006281,10006375,10008162,10008170,10008172, 10008261,10008262,10008342,10000276,10003467,10007961, 10008150,10008153,10008158,10008164,10008166,10008169, 10003219,10003573,10004769,10007679,10008151,10008160, 10008257,10008266,10008268,10008339,10002977,10004049, 10004767,10004834,10007633,10008161,10008171,10008255, 10008260,10008264,10008265,10008267,10008269,10008402, 10004766,10005391,10006300,10006784,10007310,10008167, 10008263,10008338,10002976,10003470,10003572,10004459, 10004768,10008159,10008168,10008259,10008382,10004050, 10006282,10008152,10008155,10008163,10008165

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/1406#issuecomment-380921635, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AOH0hFKu4qXIQdbMzTS4EMutK18assinks5tn63bgaJpZM4Rgb86 .

[sharpphyl]

Thanks for eliminating these images from our records. It agree it's great to be able to associate images with the collecting event as long as they're relevant.

[dustymc]

Not sure what happened, but thanks to whoever it was that did something for doing whatever you did...

Here are Media currently attached to Localities.

UAM@ARCTOS> select media_id from media_relations where media_relationship like '% locality';

  MEDIA_ID
----------
  10000072
  10003221
  10003222
  10003223
  10003228
  10003640
  10003641
  10003839
  10004980
  10004981
  10004982
  10004983
  10004984
  10004985
  10004986
  10004987
  10004988
  10004989
  10004990
  10004991
  10004992
  10004993
  10004995
  10004996
  10004997
  10004998
  10004999
  10005000
  10006911
  10006916
  10006917
  10006919
  10006920
  10006923
  10006924
  10006925
  10006926
  10006927
  10006929
  10006930
  10006931
  10006932
  10007019
  10007020
  10007021
  10007022
  10007023
  10007024
  10007025
  10007026
  10007028
  10007574
  10007746
  10008406
  10008504
  10187280
  10187281
  10187282
  10187283
  10187284
  10187285
  10187286
  10187287
  10187288
  10187289
  10187290
  10187291
  10187292
  10187349
  10187425
  10187426
  10187432
  10187447
  10187450
  10187453
  10187456
  10187457
  10187457
  10187509
  10187534
  10187609
  10187686
  10207228
  10207229
  10207231
  10207232
  10207233
  10207247
  10207274
  10207283
  10207284
  10207297
  10207298
  10207342
  10207346
  10207422
  10207466
  10207470
  10207473
  10207474
  10207475
  10207476
  10207477
  10207502
  10207545
  10207547
  10207574
  10207574
  10207575
  10207576
  10207577
  10207579
  10207586
  10207587
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  10207600
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  10207610
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  10207632
  10207638
  10207663
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  10207666
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  10207692
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  10207816
  10207957
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  10208968
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  10209017
  10209033
  10209070
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  10210005
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  10210021
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  10210047
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  10210068
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  10210191
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  10210248
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  10210367
  10210391
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  10210410
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  10210602
  10211633
  10211645
  10211782
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  10211790
  10211791
  10211792
  10211953
  10211957
  10211958
  10211969
  10211985
  10211987
  10212049
  10212420
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  10212436
  10212438
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  10212440
  10212443
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  10212461
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  10212477
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  10213331
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  10213733
  10225802
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  10226032
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  10268796
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  10399486
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  10484084
  10499438
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  10499433
  10499437
  10499954
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  10508032
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  10508057
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  10508063
  10508067
  10508076
  10508078
  10508169
  10508184
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  10508201
  10508203
  10499832
  10499833
  10499835
  10499836
  10499838
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  10499840
  10499841
  10499842
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  10499809
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  10499822
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  10499825
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  10499827
  10499828
  10499829
  10499830
  10484352
  10500096
  10500097
  10500102
  10500104
  10500105
  10500106
  10500107
  10500109
  10508123
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  10508141
  10508326
  10508330
  10508331
  10508332
  10508333
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  10508340
  10508380
  10499597
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  10500051
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  10508085
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  10508095
  10508102
  10508106
  10187362
  10187364
  10187366
  10500016
  10500017
  10500018
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  10500020
  10500021
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  10500033
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  10500038
  10500043
  10500044
  10500045
  10500046
  10500047
  10500048
  10500049
  10500050
  10484354
  10499557
  10499558
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  10499560
  10499561
  10499562
  10499563
  10499564
  10499565
  10499566
  10499567
  10499568
  10499569
  10499570
  10499571
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  10499573
  10499574
  10499575
  10499576
  10499577
  10499578
  10499579
  10499580
  10499581
  10499582
  10499583
  10499584
  10499585
  10499586
  10499587
  10499588
  10499589
  10499590
  10499596
  10564505
  10564506
  10564507
  10564509
  10564510
  10564511
  10564512
  10572815
  10572816
  10575894
  10575895
  10007507
  10566366
  10575654
  10575669
  10564185
  10564513
  10564514
  10564515
  10564516
  10564517
  10564518
  10564519
  10564520
  10564521
  10564522
  10564523
  10564524
  10564525
  10564526
  10564571
  10564572
  10564573
  10564574
  10564575

938 rows selected.

[AJLinn]

What do I need to do to remove the irrelevant media files associated with my records then? For example: http://arctos.database.museum/guid/UAM:EH:UA2014-009-0004AB This is a camera manufactured in Ann Arbor, Michigan but used all over Alaska by the collector. There are two historical photographs (http://arctos.database.museum/media/10497842 and http://arctos.database.museum/media/10207161) associated with some general Alaska collecting event (http://arctos.database.museum/showLocality.cfm?action=srch&collecting_event_id=10266274) that has nothing to do with my object.

What do I do to remove this kind of mis-attribution? @dustymc are you saying there are 938 other media files that are out there and potentially attached to object records that have nothing to do with the images?

Whatever mechanism is creating this mis-attribution we need to fix...

[dustymc]

Those photos DO have something to do with your camera - they're recorded as having an Event in the same place. The place is pretty big in this case, but that can probably be improved from Annie's (and Applegate's?) field notes.

There are ~700K other media objects "attached" via shared nodes - the 938 just happen to be attached to nodes which cannot include temporal data. I think the ability to associate objects by context rather than only including data from explicitly-asserted links is hugely powerful, even if it does start to get a little weird as we lose precision. (And that's exactly where this came from - various users want to see photos from Events which occurred at the same place 5 minutes ago, yesterday, or last year with the current specimen.)

I'll update the media include titles for next release - currently I've got...

Old:Media linked to a Collecting Event which shares the specimen's Locality. New:Media from the same Place as this Specimen.

Old:Media linked to a specimen's Collecting Event. New:Media from the same Place and Time as this Specimen.

The only mechanism at work here is the precision of the spatial data - in this case it's a string which has been described spatially as...

... that.

[AJLinn]

Thanks Dusty - I think that will be an improvement. I agree there is some degree of value to have media associated with locations that are the same as an object/specimen. But I don't agree that it should appear to be linked in some direct way to the object/specimen record (just because those people were working in Alaska during the same time as the person who used the camera in our collection we can't assume there to be any direct connection between them).

I wish there were a way to have those non-specific media appear to be more like when you're searching in iTunes or on Amazon where they give you "related to your search" options. Then the user could click on those if they want to go down that particular rabbit hole... which they might find interesting. But that's their choice rather than presenting the media as somehow directly tied to the search they just executed.

[dustymc]

Yes, agreed that some visual indication of "relatedness" would be useful - I'll see what I can figure out, ideas greatly appreciated. (Then we can discuss what "related" means! These are about as structurally close as eg, Accn Media, but I doubt ya'll see them the same way - unless you're recording Localities to meter-precision and Events to minute-precision, in which case you probably see "related place/time" Media as more relevant than "related transaction" Media....)

I would like to see "place" and "time" user-defined and data-driven (but I don't think we have the tools to pull that off yet). "Show me Media within {meters} and {hours} of this." The current model relies on keys - two specimens from THERE, THEN won't intersect if one of them has something weird in some locality or event remarks field, for example.

[sharpphyl]

Are we really closing this? We (and other collections) still have 76 photos attached to all specimens with no higher geography (locality 10000000) that are totally unrelated to the specimens. ​

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 9:04 AM dustymc notifications@github.com wrote:

Closed #1406 https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/1406.

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[dustymc]

PLEASE reopen anything that's not sufficiently resolved. (I just did.) I'm just trying to categorize Issues without Milestones, definitely not trying to ignore any remaining problems.

[sharpphyl]

I asked to reopen this because there are still 76 photos attached to locality 10000000 (no higher geography; no specific locality) which is used by >23,000 records. These images have nothing to do with our records and significantly slow down Arctos as they must load with every record associated with this locality. Is the solution to this issue somewhere in the above thread?

The same is true of locality 10000031 - California; no specific locality. There are 90 images attached to his locality that have nothing to do with our collection.

I like being able to attach images to localities, but they should relate to the collecting event and/or the specimens.

[dustymc]

My solution is above - I want to remove all links from media to locality.

attach images to localities, but they should relate to the collecting event

They do, by sharing "place" - even if the place is very large/vague.

@ccicero @mkoo

http://arctos.database.museum/MediaSearch.cfm?action=search&media_id=10005006,10005108,10005111,10005333,10005495,10006481,10006609,10187625,10187635,10187654,10187655,10000810,10000812,10005223,10005492,10005500,10005760,10005849,10006478,10008290,10187595,10187615,10187633,10187640,10187649,10000808,10000809,10000995,10005109,10005491,10005496,10005497,10005499,10006475,10007620,10187631,10187646,10187650,10000806,10000807,10000811,10002160,10005112,10005501,10187620,10187624,10187629,10187637,10187647,10187648,10205930,10000804,10000820,10002159,10003189,10003469,10005386,10005450,10187653,10207700,10005117,10005327,10005438,10005494,10005761,10006610,10187596,10187619,10187651,10187652,10000803,10003209,10005445,10005493,10005498,10187598,10187616,10187617,10187622,10187628,10000805,10000813,10000994,10003188,10003282,10003468,10005326,10006646,10007619,10187601

[campmlc]

What about forcing the linkage here to collecting events instead of locality?

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 9:23 AM dustymc notifications@github.com wrote:

My solution is above - I want to remove all links from media to locality.

attach images to localities, but they should relate to the collecting event

They do, by sharing "place" - even if the place is very large/vague.

@ccicero https://github.com/ccicero @mkoo https://github.com/mkoo

http://arctos.database.museum/MediaSearch.cfm?action=search&media_id=10005006,10005108,10005111,10005333,10005495,10006481,10006609,10187625,10187635,10187654,10187655,10000810,10000812,10005223,10005492,10005500,10005760,10005849,10006478,10008290,10187595,10187615,10187633,10187640,10187649,10000808,10000809,10000995,10005109,10005491,10005496,10005497,10005499,10006475,10007620,10187631,10187646,10187650,10000806,10000807,10000811,10002160,10005112,10005501,10187620,10187624,10187629,10187637,10187647,10187648,10205930,10000804,10000820,10002159,10003189,10003469,10005386,10005450,10187653,10207700,10005117,10005327,10005438,10005494,10005761,10006610,10187596,10187619,10187651,10187652,10000803,10003209,10005445,10005493,10005498,10187598,10187616,10187617,10187622,10187628,10000805,10000813,10000994,10003188,10003282,10003468,10005326,10006646,10007619,10187601

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[dustymc]

forcing the linkage here to collecting events

That would be the alternative if we drop the "... locality" options from http://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm?table=CTMEDIA_RELATIONSHIP.

[campmlc]

I support dropping the locality option from media and replacing it with collecting event. Even in the situation of an unknown date, each collection can assign a separate collecting event to, for example, "California, 1800-01-01-2018-12-31" to load media specific to that collection and accession. It sounds like that might fix this problem?

On the same subject, I would like to have the option of "documents project" for media.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 10:07 AM, dustymc notifications@github.com wrote:

forcing the linkage here to collecting events

That would be the alternative if we drop the "... locality" options from http://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm? table=CTMEDIA_RELATIONSHIP.

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[dustymc]

1800-01-01

Google says the first photograph was produced in 1814 - at least some of these probably weren't created before that, and they definitely weren't created tomorrow. They DO have a time component, even if not a very precise one. (And FWIW I'd use "1800-2018" - it's exactly the same thing as what you suggested, but I think it helps users recognize that there is uncertainty involved.)

documents project

associated with project exists.

fix this problem

It'll fix the parts I see as a problem, anyway. "This photo is from the same place as this specimen" is important functionality that was introduced by user request (to see habitat shots through and across years - things that probably effect what critters are there and such). That gets weird when media are associated with very large places (like planets and big states). There's really nothing I can do about that, other than pleading for better data, or not linking to data which doesn't seem to add anything of value.

[campmlc]

So what is our solution? Do we need to bring this up in the next AWG meeting, or do we have a consensus here?

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 10:39 AM, dustymc notifications@github.com wrote:

1800-01-01

Google says the first photograph was produced in 1814 - at least some of these probably weren't created before that, and they definitely weren't created tomorrow. They DO have a time component, even if not a very precise one. (And FWIW I'd use "1800-2018" - it's exactly the same thing as what you suggested, but I think it helps users recognize that there is uncertainty involved.)

documents project

associated with project exists.

fix this problem

It'll fix the parts I see as a problem, anyway. "This photo is from the same place as this specimen" is important functionality that was introduced by user request (to see habitat shots through and across years - things that probably effect what critters are there and such). That gets weird when media are associated with very large places (like planets and big states). There's really nothing I can do about that, other than pleading for better data, or not linking to data which doesn't seem to add anything of value.

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[dustymc]

I don't want to do anything drastic without talking to the folks who own the affected media - I think it's all MVZ.

[Jegelewicz]

I also support dropping the locality option from media and replacing it with collecting event.

[sharpphyl]

It's been almost a year since this issue was raised and there are still 74 totally unrelated images attached to all our "no higher geography" specimens. They do now say "Media from the same place." Is that our solution?? It would seem that we could at least keep images out of this one locality even if they show up on other general localities where they probably don't relate to our marine specimens.

[dustymc]

https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/1608

@mkoo @ccicero

[sharpphyl]

re: No Higher Geography, no specific locality 10000000.

I guess it's getting a bit better. There are now 67 images (down from 74 in December) attached to all Arctos 22,980 records with locality 10000000 which includes 2,697 of our records. They take unnecessary time to load and have nothing to do with our specimen records.

I've cloned a new locality 10727701 with the same data and the Remark "do not attach media to this locality". I'm slowly moving our records to this locality. Is that the only and best solution? Seems like someone could get those 67 images where they belong - with a collecting event or some specimens.

Can we also not allow media to be attached to Locality 10000000?

As for #1608, referenced above, I can't get my one media attached to a locality to move to the collecting event. See comments at that issue. Instructions?