Closed amgunderson closed 2 years ago
Or can we create a new event and add the ethnology records to it enmass?
Should this image show up
Structurally yes (because https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/860), although I'm not sure what importance the event has to that particular image. (I guess it does show some birch trees.)
The relationship is event (with media)-->locality-->event (with specimens - http://arctos.database.museum/Locality.cfm?action=findCollEvent&locality_id=1080) so messing with the event won't get rid of it - you'd need to move the image's event to a new locality.
https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/865 will probably un-do that unless you change spec locality or etc.
@ccicero
Looks like this issue is still open. I noticed today that on Locality 10000000, there are 76 images that have nothing to do with the 3,020 of our lots that now show these images because they are linked to "no higher geography recorded: no specific locality recorded." The images now appear on over 27,354 Arctos records from multiple museums. There's got to be a better way to link images to just the specimens or events where they belong. Do I have to create a new locality for my 3,020 lots and move them all to get rid of these images?
create a new locality
I'll just auto-merge it - https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/865 (or http://handbook.arctosdb.org/documentation/locality.html#maintenance for a way to avoid that)
There's got to be a better way to link images to just the specimens or events where they belong.
I maintain that the linkage is important - photos of a locality enhance the value of other junk using that locality. That of course makes no sense when the locality is "we have absolutely no idea," and that's what this one is. A bunch of them have nothing to do with any locality, one of them apparently shows some unknown bushes, etc. And a bunch are linked to specimens which DO have useful locality data.
Perhaps we should remove the "% locality" media relationship(s) altogether - media ALWAYS has temporal data (it wasn't created tomorrow....), and localities purposefully avoid that.
@mkoo @ccicero help!
It would make more sense to have any media associated with the collecting event, for the reason Dusty described. Localities change over time.
On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 1:41 PM, dustymc notifications@github.com wrote:
create a new locality
I'll just auto-merge it - #865 https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/865 (or http://handbook.arctosdb.org/documentation/locality.html#maintenance for a way to avoid that)
There's got to be a better way to link images to just the specimens or events where they belong.
I maintain that the linkage is important - photos of a locality enhance the value of other junk using that locality. That of course makes no sense when the locality is "we have absolutely no idea," and that's what this one is. A bunch of them have nothing to do with any locality, one of them apparently shows some unknown bushes, etc. And a bunch are linked to specimens which DO have useful locality data.
Perhaps we should remove the "% locality" media relationship(s) altogether
- media ALWAYS has temporal data (it wasn't created tomorrow....), and localities purposefully avoid that.
@mkoo https://github.com/mkoo @ccicero https://github.com/ccicero help!
http://arctos.database.museum/MediaSearch.cfm?action=search& media_id=10003217,10003375,10003466,10006377,10008154, 10008156,10008157,10008256,10008258,10499100,10004051, 10005915,10006281,10006375,10008162,10008170,10008172, 10008261,10008262,10008342,10000276,10003467,10007961, 10008150,10008153,10008158,10008164,10008166,10008169, 10003219,10003573,10004769,10007679,10008151,10008160, 10008257,10008266,10008268,10008339,10002977,10004049, 10004767,10004834,10007633,10008161,10008171,10008255, 10008260,10008264,10008265,10008267,10008269,10008402, 10004766,10005391,10006300,10006784,10007310,10008167, 10008263,10008338,10002976,10003470,10003572,10004459, 10004768,10008159,10008168,10008259,10008382,10004050, 10006282,10008152,10008155,10008163,10008165
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Thanks for eliminating these images from our records. It agree it's great to be able to associate images with the collecting event as long as they're relevant.
Not sure what happened, but thanks to whoever it was that did something for doing whatever you did...
Here are Media currently attached to Localities.
UAM@ARCTOS> select media_id from media_relations where media_relationship like '% locality';
MEDIA_ID
----------
10000072
10003221
10003222
10003223
10003228
10003640
10003641
10003839
10004980
10004981
10004982
10004983
10004984
10004985
10004986
10004987
10004988
10004989
10004990
10004991
10004992
10004993
10004995
10004996
10004997
10004998
10004999
10005000
10006911
10006916
10006917
10006919
10006920
10006923
10006924
10006925
10006926
10006927
10006929
10006930
10006931
10006932
10007019
10007020
10007021
10007022
10007023
10007024
10007025
10007026
10007028
10007574
10007746
10008406
10008504
10187280
10187281
10187282
10187283
10187284
10187285
10187286
10187287
10187288
10187289
10187290
10187291
10187292
10187349
10187425
10187426
10187432
10187447
10187450
10187453
10187456
10187457
10187457
10187509
10187534
10187609
10187686
10207228
10207229
10207231
10207232
10207233
10207247
10207274
10207283
10207284
10207297
10207298
10207342
10207346
10207422
10207466
10207470
10207473
10207474
10207475
10207476
10207477
10207502
10207545
10207547
10207574
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10207586
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10209017
10209033
10209070
10209072
10209075
10209078
10209992
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10210005
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10210018
10210021
10210031
10210047
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10210050
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10211953
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10211969
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10226032
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10359499
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10399486
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10484352
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938 rows selected.
What do I need to do to remove the irrelevant media files associated with my records then? For example: http://arctos.database.museum/guid/UAM:EH:UA2014-009-0004AB This is a camera manufactured in Ann Arbor, Michigan but used all over Alaska by the collector. There are two historical photographs (http://arctos.database.museum/media/10497842 and http://arctos.database.museum/media/10207161) associated with some general Alaska collecting event (http://arctos.database.museum/showLocality.cfm?action=srch&collecting_event_id=10266274) that has nothing to do with my object.
What do I do to remove this kind of mis-attribution? @dustymc are you saying there are 938 other media files that are out there and potentially attached to object records that have nothing to do with the images?
Whatever mechanism is creating this mis-attribution we need to fix...
Those photos DO have something to do with your camera - they're recorded as having an Event in the same place. The place is pretty big in this case, but that can probably be improved from Annie's (and Applegate's?) field notes.
There are ~700K other media objects "attached" via shared nodes - the 938 just happen to be attached to nodes which cannot include temporal data. I think the ability to associate objects by context rather than only including data from explicitly-asserted links is hugely powerful, even if it does start to get a little weird as we lose precision. (And that's exactly where this came from - various users want to see photos from Events which occurred at the same place 5 minutes ago, yesterday, or last year with the current specimen.)
I'll update the media include titles for next release - currently I've got...
Old:Media linked to a Collecting Event which shares the specimen's Locality. New:Media from the same Place as this Specimen.
Old:Media linked to a specimen's Collecting Event. New:Media from the same Place and Time as this Specimen.
The only mechanism at work here is the precision of the spatial data - in this case it's a string which has been described spatially as...
... that.
Thanks Dusty - I think that will be an improvement. I agree there is some degree of value to have media associated with locations that are the same as an object/specimen. But I don't agree that it should appear to be linked in some direct way to the object/specimen record (just because those people were working in Alaska during the same time as the person who used the camera in our collection we can't assume there to be any direct connection between them).
I wish there were a way to have those non-specific media appear to be more like when you're searching in iTunes or on Amazon where they give you "related to your search" options. Then the user could click on those if they want to go down that particular rabbit hole... which they might find interesting. But that's their choice rather than presenting the media as somehow directly tied to the search they just executed.
Yes, agreed that some visual indication of "relatedness" would be useful - I'll see what I can figure out, ideas greatly appreciated. (Then we can discuss what "related" means! These are about as structurally close as eg, Accn Media, but I doubt ya'll see them the same way - unless you're recording Localities to meter-precision and Events to minute-precision, in which case you probably see "related place/time" Media as more relevant than "related transaction" Media....)
I would like to see "place" and "time" user-defined and data-driven (but I don't think we have the tools to pull that off yet). "Show me Media within {meters} and {hours} of this." The current model relies on keys - two specimens from THERE, THEN won't intersect if one of them has something weird in some locality or event remarks field, for example.
Are we really closing this? We (and other collections) still have 76 photos attached to all specimens with no higher geography (locality 10000000) that are totally unrelated to the specimens.
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 9:04 AM dustymc notifications@github.com wrote:
Closed #1406 https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/1406.
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PLEASE reopen anything that's not sufficiently resolved. (I just did.) I'm just trying to categorize Issues without Milestones, definitely not trying to ignore any remaining problems.
I asked to reopen this because there are still 76 photos attached to locality 10000000 (no higher geography; no specific locality) which is used by >23,000 records. These images have nothing to do with our records and significantly slow down Arctos as they must load with every record associated with this locality. Is the solution to this issue somewhere in the above thread?
The same is true of locality 10000031 - California; no specific locality. There are 90 images attached to his locality that have nothing to do with our collection.
I like being able to attach images to localities, but they should relate to the collecting event and/or the specimens.
My solution is above - I want to remove all links from media to locality.
attach images to localities, but they should relate to the collecting event
They do, by sharing "place" - even if the place is very large/vague.
@ccicero @mkoo
What about forcing the linkage here to collecting events instead of locality?
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 9:23 AM dustymc notifications@github.com wrote:
My solution is above - I want to remove all links from media to locality.
attach images to localities, but they should relate to the collecting event
They do, by sharing "place" - even if the place is very large/vague.
@ccicero https://github.com/ccicero @mkoo https://github.com/mkoo
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forcing the linkage here to collecting events
That would be the alternative if we drop the "... locality" options from http://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm?table=CTMEDIA_RELATIONSHIP.
I support dropping the locality option from media and replacing it with collecting event. Even in the situation of an unknown date, each collection can assign a separate collecting event to, for example, "California, 1800-01-01-2018-12-31" to load media specific to that collection and accession. It sounds like that might fix this problem?
On the same subject, I would like to have the option of "documents project" for media.
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 10:07 AM, dustymc notifications@github.com wrote:
forcing the linkage here to collecting events
That would be the alternative if we drop the "... locality" options from http://arctos.database.museum/info/ctDocumentation.cfm? table=CTMEDIA_RELATIONSHIP.
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1800-01-01
Google says the first photograph was produced in 1814 - at least some of these probably weren't created before that, and they definitely weren't created tomorrow. They DO have a time component, even if not a very precise one. (And FWIW I'd use "1800-2018" - it's exactly the same thing as what you suggested, but I think it helps users recognize that there is uncertainty involved.)
documents project
associated with project exists.
fix this problem
It'll fix the parts I see as a problem, anyway. "This photo is from the same place as this specimen" is important functionality that was introduced by user request (to see habitat shots through and across years - things that probably effect what critters are there and such). That gets weird when media are associated with very large places (like planets and big states). There's really nothing I can do about that, other than pleading for better data, or not linking to data which doesn't seem to add anything of value.
So what is our solution? Do we need to bring this up in the next AWG meeting, or do we have a consensus here?
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 10:39 AM, dustymc notifications@github.com wrote:
1800-01-01
Google says the first photograph was produced in 1814 - at least some of these probably weren't created before that, and they definitely weren't created tomorrow. They DO have a time component, even if not a very precise one. (And FWIW I'd use "1800-2018" - it's exactly the same thing as what you suggested, but I think it helps users recognize that there is uncertainty involved.)
documents project
associated with project exists.
fix this problem
It'll fix the parts I see as a problem, anyway. "This photo is from the same place as this specimen" is important functionality that was introduced by user request (to see habitat shots through and across years - things that probably effect what critters are there and such). That gets weird when media are associated with very large places (like planets and big states). There's really nothing I can do about that, other than pleading for better data, or not linking to data which doesn't seem to add anything of value.
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I don't want to do anything drastic without talking to the folks who own the affected media - I think it's all MVZ.
I also support dropping the locality option from media and replacing it with collecting event.
It's been almost a year since this issue was raised and there are still 74 totally unrelated images attached to all our "no higher geography" specimens. They do now say "Media from the same place." Is that our solution?? It would seem that we could at least keep images out of this one locality even if they show up on other general localities where they probably don't relate to our marine specimens.
https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/1608
@mkoo @ccicero
re: No Higher Geography, no specific locality 10000000.
I guess it's getting a bit better. There are now 67 images (down from 74 in December) attached to all Arctos 22,980 records with locality 10000000 which includes 2,697 of our records. They take unnecessary time to load and have nothing to do with our specimen records.
I've cloned a new locality 10727701 with the same data and the Remark "do not attach media to this locality". I'm slowly moving our records to this locality. Is that the only and best solution? Seems like someone could get those 67 images where they belong - with a collecting event or some specimens.
Can we also not allow media to be attached to Locality 10000000?
As for #1608, referenced above, I can't get my one media attached to a locality to move to the collecting event. See comments at that issue. Instructions?
Should this image show up on 319 specimens? http://arctos.database.museum/media/10498076 It is linked to collecting event 10971209 which is used by MSB hosts and parasites and UAM Ethnology. Can I delete the media link to the event so it does not show up on all the Ethnology records assigned to that event?