Wolffenstein
commented
5 years ago Base attack speed and physical damage fixed in rev 2262.
Closed Neophrone closed 5 years ago
Wolffenstein
commented
5 years ago Base attack speed and physical damage fixed in rev 2262.
aresbrutus
commented
5 years ago Great report!
KevinTyrrell
commented
5 years ago Something seems wrong with pet exp too. If you tame Lupos for example at 23, you're 58, it will take eons to get that pet to your level. At least a few days. Something with the exp scaling seems not right but I can't tell how/why.
Neophrone
commented
5 years ago Something seems wrong with pet exp too. If you tame Lupos for example at 23, you're 58, it will take eons to get that pet to your level. At least a few days. Something with the exp scaling seems not right but I can't tell how/why.
Didn't uderstand what u mean. I didn't level him at all. I've made this character, tamed Lupos and did some researches/tests. It took few hours, but I didn't lvl with this pet.
KevinTyrrell
commented
5 years ago Something seems wrong with pet exp too. If you tame Lupos for example at 23, you're 58, it will take eons to get that pet to your level. At least a few days. Something with the exp scaling seems not right but I can't tell how/why.
Didn't uderstand what u mean. I didn't level him at all. I've made this character, tamed Lupos and did some researches/tests. It took few hours, but I didn't lvl with this pet.
I'm bringing up another pet issue that I've noticed. Was wondering if you or any other Hunter players also noticed that pets exp seems off.
mhdemn
commented
5 years ago Brilliant and meticulous post, tyvm
In addition to your post, since you don't mention them: beasts with mana will get tamed with notable differences in base attributes. These are commonly known as "caster pets" and you can also find reliable tables with info on their attributes on archived petopia.
Didn't have the will to dig into pet stats as OP did (kudos) but if base pet stats are off, caster pet base stats probably will too. Now, no hunter should tame one of those because they're just worse than standard pets and have no upsides, but for perfectionism's sake you might want to look into those.
.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Wanted to add some other relevant/critical pet issues to this thread:
Sidenote - Worth mentioning hunter bugs while I'm at it:
.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................
I'm bringing up another pet issue that I've noticed. Was wondering if you or any other Hunter players also noticed that pets exp seems off.
Don't know what to tell you tbh, in my experience it seems ok, even though I don't have a clear reference from retail TBC, every server (vanilla mostly, some tbc too) I played has a similar xp curve for pets.
Wolffenstein
commented
5 years ago Pathing, crits, attack power fixed in rev 2273.
mhdemn
commented
5 years ago I'm unsure about this, since I can't find much info to back me up, but here it goes since this is faster than asking and then elaborating if I get a positive answer:
Afaik and as this guy says
pet's crit chance looks like this, in my case:
+
15.15% crit chance.
Now, looking at the info I've been gathering since Wolf fixed pet's capacity to crit in 2279 (iirc), and including unsuccessful attacks in the total (since I suck at math and I don't wanna mess up later): ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Melee
453 crits in 2981 melee hits equals to 15.19% crit chance for melee ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Gore
207 crits in 1999 gore hits equals to 10.35% crit chance for Gore. ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Kill Command
41 crits in 236 Kill Command hits equals to 17.37% crit chance for Kill Command. .....................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Data exposing over, this is what I'm unsure about and where speculation starts - assuming 15.15% is the right number:
Gore's crit chance is lower than it should. However, I don't know if hunter pets are supposed to have lower crit chance in their abilities, never played much hunter, but I haven't ever heard about that.
Kill Command's crit chance bothers me the most, 17.37% is higher than expected, yeah, but we have to take into account the talent Focused Fire. This brings me to the following:
Can't find sources where it's specifically said that it either increases the number in KC's crit chance by 20, or rather it augments this number by an amount equal to a 20% of it. I'm strongly inclined towards thinking the former case is blizzlike, so are the two hunters I talked with; and in the latter case it seems like such a small thing for a spell you end up using with such low frequency; but let's revise both:
If Focused Fire summed 20% to our 15.15% crit chance as a regular sum we would be sitting at 35.15% crit chance.
If Focused Fire summed 20% of 15.15 to our 15.15% crit chance we would be looking at 18.18% crit chance.
Looking at current NW (2282), the latter case seems to be the one working, since the deviation between 17.37 and 18.18 is expectable in such a small data input like 236 casts.
Therefore I'd like to ask, since I'm pretty sure the former is the blizzlike case but I don't have proof to back me up, that this is looked at / proof is thrown in to prove me right or wrong if necessary. Changing it to flat 20% as I think it should be without further research also works for me tho :) Also, Gore's crit chance is too low I think.
Sorry if the math is complete shit and I should have taken misses/dodges/parries into my calculations, never been good at this.
Update Nov 16th (2321)
Wiped previous data, this is all new. Using same logic as previous, knowing that chance to crit, miss, get dodged, blocked or parried gets calculated at the same time.
Not uploading pictures of every data, but I'm keeping it anyway if you need to take a look in detail.
16529 melee autoattacks, 2523 of them were crits --> 15.3% 10215 gore casts, 1344 of them were crits --> 13.2% 1427 kill command casts, 444 of them were crits --> 31.1%
Numbers seem more accurate now, perhaps Gore is a little lower than it should, but Kill Command seems to be having an adecquate crit rate now.
Easyfraggy
commented
5 years ago You'd need to do something like 10000 hits with those abilities to even get close to a 5% error rate.
mhdemn
commented
5 years ago You'd need to do something like 10000 hits with those abilities to even get close to a 5% error rate.
You're right, but anyhow the difference between 35.15% and 18.18% crit chance is too big to miss it. I could have skipped the math to be honest, just tried to back myself up with something since I can't find proof to prove my opinion lol
Neophrone
commented
5 years ago You'd need to do something like 10000 hits with those abilities to even get close to a 5% error rate.
You're right, but anyhow the difference between 35.15% and 18.18% crit chance is too big to miss it. I could have skipped the math to be honest, just tried to back myself up with something since I can't find proof to prove my opinion lol
Just keep lvling and don't reset u'r Recount data. And then check KC crit rate after a few days. 236 hits are to low ammount to count crit rate of any ability.
Neophrone
commented
5 years ago Btw, I forgot about another bug I found. Position of pet in combat. If pet fighting the mob/boss/player he always should stand behind the target (except situations when this target fighting pet ofc). Realy important especialy for boss fights, since boss can't parry from behind and chance to die in front of boss (cleave abilities, cone abilities etc.) higher than from behind.
mhdemn
commented
5 years ago Will keeping gathering data for KC. Gore data seems extensive enough to make conclusions already, imo.
mhdemn
commented
5 years ago Will update the crit post with more data soon.
2304
I wanna add to the thread that several bosses in different places that have AoE spells seem to ignore hunter pet's Avoidance (the taught passive that reduces 50% of the AoE they receive). Will update soon with recorded footage. I noticed this so far in:
2339 update
Been observing it in HCs in every boss with aoe mechanics, every cleaving / aoe-spell provided mob. Both normal and elite mobs, bosses and minibosses (as Torung in Shattered Halls) will annihilate any hunter pet in 1-2 hits max.
A fair amount of these were also those scarce NPCs around heroics that have their damage numbers a tad bit high, but also those whose damage is adecquate and bearable by tanks are hitting pets for the full amount.
mhdemn
commented
5 years ago AxeCell noted another bug in #2711 I added video clarification to it as a response in that thread
Easyfraggy
commented
5 years ago This post is very old - I believe it was mostly fixed long time ago.
Please open 1 issue per bug if anything from here isn't fixed yet - bug compilations something always gets left out and forgotten. Better to have 1 issue per bug.
Description: Hunter's pets doing to much damage. I diged some info about pets scaling, formulas, etc. That what I found. Mostly I used this site do dig info: http://web.archive.org/web/20080512055026/http://petopia.brashendeavors.net:80/index.php. This is a wayback machine of petopia (some kind of pet's wowhead). All tests made without any talents and with "Content" Happynes (100% of normal pet damage), so pets stats are in basic state.
Current behaviour:
1) First of all "All pets now have a base attack speed of 2.0." Patch 2.0.8. http://web.archive.org/web/20070302082031/http://petopia.brashendeavors.net:80/index.shtml On Netherwing:
This is important, becouse with BM talents + Lightning Reflexes Cats will have 0.6-0.7 attack speed, which is real pain for casters on Arena.
2) Pets stats. Starting with Patch 2.0, hunter pets now benefit from "pet scaling". Pet scaling just means that your pet gets to add some of your stats to his own stats, so that his power scales with your power. The basics are very simple: Pets get about 30% of the hunter's stamina added to their stamina. Pets get about 35% of the hunter's armor added to their armor. Pets get about 22% of the hunter's ranged attack power added to their melee attack power. Pets get about 12.5% of the hunter's ranged attack power added to their spell damage. Pets get about 40% of the hunter's resistances added to their own resistances. http://web.archive.org/web/20080512054116/http://petopia.brashendeavors.net:80/html/articles/stats_scaling.php Stats above scale correct on Netherwing. But Pets Strength, Agility, Intellect, Spirit - is static for every lvl and for every pet tipe. http://web.archive.org/web/20080512054051/http://petopia.brashendeavors.net:80/html/articles/stats_attributes.php Example(this is from wowwikia):
Stats like shown in table.
On Netherwing:
Ammount of Agility, Intellect, Spirit is wrong. Int and Spirit not so important, but agility increase pets crit rate.
3) Attack power scales wrong. Every 14 AP should increase DPS by 1. Tooltip of pet attack power prove it:
153AP/10.9DPS = 14
On Netherwing pets got double DPS increase from AP.
Proves:
This is normal state pet with 181 AP(it's wolf, wolf family haven't any damage multipliers):
This is the same pet, but with warriors Demo Shout(AP decreased):
Same pet, same warrior, but warrior with 4/5 Improved Demo Shout talent:
Last screen shows base pet damage (18-28) without AP, this damage depends on pet lvl.
Second screen shows us pet attack speed - 2.0.
So base pet DPS is: (18+28)/2= 23(average damage); 23/2= 11.5(base DPS).
With 36AP(second screen) pet damage should be:
(11.5 + 36/14)2=28.2(average damage) 23-33(damage with 36 AP).
But as we can see on screen it's 28-39. 33.5(average damage) 33.5/2=16.8 DPS
And now lets count DPS gain from AP:
16.8(36AP DPS) - 11.5(base DPS)= 5.3 DPS gained from 36AP. 36/5.3= 6.8AP need for 1 DPS, but should be 14.
Same calculations for 181AP.
181AP damage 69-80. 74.5 average damage. 37.3 DPS.
37.3 - 11.5(base DPS)= 25.8DPS gained from 181AP.
181/25.8= 7AP need for 1 DPS, but should be 14.
Damage should be:
(11.5 + 181/14)2=48.8(average) 44-54.
44-54 vs 69-80. As much attck power pet will gain, more difference will be, and this is without any multipliers.
4) This is Lupos(rare wolf from Duskwood):
And he's doing Shadow damage. =)
Which means he ignoring target armor.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080512054523/http://petopia.brashendeavors.net:80/html/mobs/mob_lupos.php
"Lupos was once everyone's favorite wolf because he inflicted shadow damage instead of physical damage with his attacks. Alas, this is no longer the case." He was nerfed in patch 1.7. All TBC pets doing physical damage with melee swings, some abilities (like Lightning Breath) doing spell damage.
Now imagine all this bugs (double DPS gain from AP, Lupos Shadow damage) with all multipliers of BM talents, Happines(another +25% of damage), Orc racial (5% pet damage), Bestial Wrath(50% damage increase) and u'll receive hunter's pet dealing the same damage as lvl 70 pet in raid.
5) Dismiss Pet should decrease happiness by 50.
Expected behaviour: 1) All pets base attack speed should be 2.0. 2) Strangth, Agility, Intellect, Spirit - are static stats for each pet lvl. Should be like in this table: http://web.archive.org/web/20080512054051/http://petopia.brashendeavors.net:80/html/articles/stats_attributes.php 3) Attack power scaling 14AP = 1 DPS increase. 4) Lupos should deal physical damage. 5) Dismiss Pet should decrease pet happiness for 50. Server Revision: 2259.