[Possible Bug] Arcane Infusions Always Unstable

[jvcmarcenes]

So, I was going to do my firat infusion in this New tc world, boots of the traveller, fairly easy, and not a very high instablity, negligeble ad the book says However, I had my setup, all symetrical by the altar (I did had no candles and stuff, but since it was of negligeble instability I thought that's okay) Then it got very unstable, I died from taint poisoning, it consumed all my essentia, the items blew up and some taint started spawning Later I tries the same infusion, same symmetry, same everything, but with 40 candles and some skulls (I wemt on a creative world) and the samw thing happened, Is this okay? It certainly doesn't feel okay Also, not that this matter very much but as a linguistics enthusiast it surely does annoy me, the thaumanomicon isn't consistent, for example, in the Arcane Infusion entry it goes from first person to third, I really like the new first person thaumanomicon, but there some incosistences scatterwd around

[luminousinsect]

I know for a fact in TC6 that skulls/candles/etc. have to be as symmetric as possible as well. Perfectly symmetric ingredient/table placement with asymmetric skulls/candles can be as unstable as an asymmetric ingredient/table arrangement without any paraphernalia. However for me, with a "neglible" instability, with a few candles and skulls (4 skulls and 12 candles) the infusion altar will still say its unstable as soon as you start infusing even if you have the stabilizer underneath the central table, underneath the infusion matrix (not sure if this is the correct spot, I think the thaumonomicon should be clearer about this), however that will only destroy/blow off items at an insignificant probability if at all.

[Geethebluesky]

Also, not that this matter very much but as a linguistics enthusiast it surely does annoy me, the thaumanomicon isn't consistent, for example, in the Arcane Infusion entry it goes from first person to third, I really like the new first person thaumanomicon, but there some incosistences scatterwd around

It annoys me too, I'm working on that at the moment.

Re: instability, I think the altar goes unstable with the first few infusions you do to push you to explore the Stabilizer research.

If you have an air gap (layer of candles and such below your altar, for example) try connecting that layer to the actual altar layer using arcane bricks and such (the same material used for the actual altar floor). I think it had an effect for me but I'm not sure at all yet.

The stabilizer probably can't work if it's separated from the altar by blocks...

[luminousinsect]

Not sure if the stabilizer is working at all. I used it attached/pointed to the bottom of the central altar pedestal (under the matrix) and powered with a vis generator, as well as pointed to the infusion matrix from above also powered with a vis generator. "Minor" instability infusions (so far the thaumium fortress helm and chestpiece) go dangerously unstable for both. If neither of these are the correct positions, the research entry in the thaumonomicon definitely needs to be clearer about this. Also as a suggestion I think the particles from the stabilizer could be less subtle; it took me a while to notice it was even on.

Additionally, all of my candles & skulls are between the outer pedestals & the central columns/altar, not sure if this does anything because I never really noticed an effect from this in TC4/5 since infusion was far less unstable.

[Raumis]

Basic setup for Boots Of The Traveler: Without tallow or skulls this will go unstable.

Stable configuration throughout infusion

[luminousinsect]

Just tested that exact setup with the Thaumium Fortress Leggings, a Minor instability, with the stabilizer on and pointing directly at the infusion matrix, still goes dangerously unstable. Might work fine with Negligible but not Minor or above. I'll try my next one with an arcane stone floor since everyone seems to do that even though the Thaumonomicon doesn't mention it.

[jvcmarcenes]

Yea, that seems weird tho... I got scared when everyting started blowing up, I'll try and move the infusion altar somewere clearer, cange te floor to arcane stone, currently it is greatwood planks, and make te setup that Raumis showed... hope that this works

[red360]

All you need is a bunch of stuff around your altar to make a very high instability very stable.

[jvcmarcenes]

Yeah, thay still feels like too much, I don't want to have a floating floor filled with candles and skulls (which I can't get in survival) just to be able to craft I have 32 candles, and a Stabilizer, and still I can't do crafting witout it becoming dangerously unstable I tried doing te vis amulet with this setup and it still got unstable and blew my items up, I tougth that the Stabilizer would be there to fix that

[Geethebluesky]

There's a Reddit post out there with all the math, suggesting formulas that can be useful to achieve complete stability. According to @AnrDaemon it's on the order of 400 candles or such...!

[jvcmarcenes]

That's ridiculous '-' I'm gonna have to make a hidden layer bellow the altar with a bunch of candles then (good thing my basic math skills aren't all that good, and I ended up crafting 2 stacks of candles when I just wanted to craft half a stack)

[red360]

You can also fill the the spaces down on the same level out in a radius of 2 blocks with just candles. Thats not creative i have more mods. I just put them up there so the flux doesn't wash them away. Just another way till the stabilizer gets fixed and doesn't crash my world.

[jvcmarcenes]

Yeah, the stabilizer works for me... kind of, no crashes, it just barely helps with stabilization like, without candles every infusion would get unstable with some candles I can make negligeble instability infusions and with the stabilizer now I can make minor instability infusions I believe

[AnrDaemon]

Unless something has changed (I know, this may feel dull by now, but it's a necessary disclaimer), the active area from which runic matrix drawing essentia and in which it looking for stabilizer is 5 blocks above, 10 below and 12 across to the sides. Again, I emphasize the role of Runic Matrix as an anchor point for all calculations. Plenty of space to hide your stabilizers, if you are inclined to make your infusions completely stable. And the relevant reddit post.

[Azanor]

The rules behind the scenes have changed quite a bit since b14. For example 10 candles/skulls/whatever is now the cap - more than that is pointless. There is a bug in b14-b16 which ignores that cap, but it is fixed for b17.

Stability is now a resource that gets used every craft cycle. Think of it like hit points. Candles and such adds a small amount of passive 'regen' to that hit point pool every cycle, while Stabilizers adds a much bugger chunk. Stabilizers also allow you to add a buffer of stability before crafting even starts. You can use multiple Stabilizers and they can accept a lot more power than a single vis generator can generate.

Saying that I have been tweaking the numbers and candles and such will offer a lot more stability out of the box.

[jvcmarcenes]

Oh, I don't think I can suply a stabilizer with more than the power of a single vis generator since I'm only playing with Thaumcraft (well, some other non-game changing mods as well) And, I believe the thaumonomicon isn't very clear on this: do the stabilizers have to placed symmetrically as well?

[AnrDaemon]

You can connect multiple generators to the same block, you know?…

[Geethebluesky]

How? It doesn't visually attach unless it's directly opposite of where the Stabilizer is pointing. (Caveat, I suck at energy except where conduits are involved)

[AnrDaemon]

In general, RF consumers are not sided. But… since there's no obvious ways to see if the Stabilizer is powered… also it is unclear what is its peak RF/t consumption… Testing is not easy.

[Geethebluesky]

Looking forward to these indicators in beta 17+ then I suppose. :)

[luminousinsect]

That explains it. I had only one vis generator hooked up to my stabilizer. Time to hook up stabilizers to my TE/EnderIO power system so I don't suck the vis dry xD. Do vis generators take workbench chargers or will they in the future? Also I'm still not clear on what the stabilizer needs to be aimed at, the infusion matrix itself or just in the general area of the altar?

[Geethebluesky]

The Runic Matrix itself I believe.

[AnrDaemon]

The matrix itself. Once I reloaded the world, there was a gentle halo coming from stabilizer into the matrix' direction. There's probably some synchronization issues there.

[yunruiwatts]

@Azanor you should probably make sure that the 10-candle cap is specifically mentioned in the change log when you post the next version - we wouldn't get as many people reporting the same issue over and over again as we did with 858, but I'm guess a lot of people's infusion setups involve lots of candles.

[luminousinsect]

Yeah there’s a couple more issues there that might be synchronization-related; the infusion matrix text (seen with goggles) doesn’t seem to update when infusion isn’t occurring, it just keeps the last stability value from the last infusion, then all of the sudden today it reverted to very stable quite some time after my last infusion (maybe after restart and/or chunks reloading). Also previously the stabilizer showed only a very subtle particle effect but now after accidentally leaving redstone off my vis generator (and thus the stabilizer on) for a long time it’s a bright pink effect. Also, neither the vis generator particle effect nor the stabilizer effect respond in real time (or even at all) to being disabled by redstone so the best indicator I have that the setup is disabled is the vis regenerating. I use OneProbe instead of Hwyla/Waila/Wawla but I don’t think anything can see the power states of these machines right now. Should definitely add a GUI since that is pretty standard with any mod involving FE (except Immersive Engineering but that mod is rather broken imo)

[jvcmarcenes]

Why are we using RF / FE to power magic again?... Never quite got that Anyhow, I could place more than one vis generator pointing at the same stabilizer, but the stabilizer only has on inpuit in its back side

[Geethebluesky]

I'm wondering the same. Besides the obvious bonus of integrating with more technical mods, not sure how this fits in the magical theme. Hoping there's additional lore or development or stuff that explains it.

[AnrDaemon]

Consider it returning to the roots (TC1/2).

[Szasdragon]

[Suggestion] Maybe if the altar zap you first time, the Thaumonomicon gain a new Addendum at Infusion for explain some more specific stabilizing hints. What counts, what factors weighing more.