Summoning

[DeadSlayer54]

Although I don't know if this is the path you're interested in taking with thaumcraft, I believe that it would be a lot of fun. I believe players should be able to learn to summon creatures, be it simply a pig or two to start a farm when there aren't normally any pigs within a hundred thousand blocks of your home or a creature similar to the crimson knight to aid in combat. This will be very helpful for when players need access to some creatures when that creature isn't available for one reason or another, either simply don't spawn or they don't want to go through the effort of leading them back etc. Perhaps this could be a page in the thaumonomicon unlocked when the player finishes all the golemancy research? I think it should work by having the required liquid essentia around a summoning altar of a sort, maybe a brazier or something similar? Anyway, they have the essentia to give the animal's essence, then they can have bones and [rotten flesh for a humanoid, porkchop or respective meat for an animal, etc] to give it a body, then an animation of the essentia flowing into the body parts, forming the creature in an unconscious, dead-like state, then the player looses some hearts [more for more powerful creatures, maybe like 2 hearts for a pig and 1 for a chicken or something] and a light moves from the player to the animal, hinting at giving the animal your life essence to give it life. This will be helpful in many ways, and maybe the player can create an army to aid in his journeys to dangerous areas. I hope this doesn't go against your intended paths for thaumcraft to take? It'll add an interesting aspect of necromancy in a way to the game that I have long thought thaumcraft needed. It's a very fun mod, definitely a top favorite of mine, it's the first I look for when adding mods to minecraft! Thanks!

[DeadSlayer54]

Also completely off topic of my previous suggestion maybe here's a quick brief list of other suggestions I've been wanting thaumcraft to do -Summoning [as stated above] -Necromancy -Wards [prevent mobs from passing, stopping projectiles from passing, traps that explode or something, by written symbols the player can maybe learn from tomes or something randomly generated in chests?] -A crimson cult questline? [I see the crimson cult a lot, and it may just be I don't get far enough in the mod but once I read the crimson rites they're just about useless thereafter. I think there should be more about them, being called the 'crimson cult' seriously led me to thinking they'll have a much bigger impact on the game besides just existing] -New dimensions? [I don't know exactly what but I always love new dimensions, stupid suggestion especially with nothing in mind aside from wanting more areas to explore, maybe a realm of pure vis and flux and energy of pure chaos and danger and wonder and beauty] -Magic candles that when present can decrease the amount of vis required for a spell or for crafting or whatever based on the candle's color? -The ability to contract vampirism or werewolf-thing not sure what its called and similar things with their own pros and cons, that would be really fun to play around with! -More Mobs [like were wolves, vampires, that sort of fun stuff, if they exist then my apologies for i have yet to see any] -New Dungeon: Sunken Library [a place taken over by monsters that contains lore lost to time, with loot such as the basic loot you'd expect from any chest and also books of thaumcraft lore and maybe new discoveries available unique only to be unlocked if you find the book for it from this library]

[Trentin996]

Some of these ideas are actually pretty good. And, the words you were looking for are vamparism and lycanthropy. Nectromancy and summoning especially, however, I feel like those almost lean more towards an Ars Magica feel, as opposed to a magical technology type of feel that Thaumcraft traditionally has.

[DeadSlayer54]

Thanks, and I haven't heard of Ars Magica, my computer broke so I'll have to check it out when I get it fixed, but I understand the 'strays from the technological magics' thing, I felt the same but considering it IS magic I felt it should be possible anyway. The vampiarism and lycanthropy bits I think should be added simply for the fun of the gameplay of it. : )

[Trentin996]

I feel like they should be add-ons, if anything. The concept is interesting, but doesn't seem to flow well with the core concept of Thaumcraft. I personally would love to summon a hoard of freaking demons to slaughter my enemies and then raise said enemies from the dead just to be an ass, but it seems like something to go in an entirely different mod or possibly as an add-on, as I said. I can see necromancy, possibly, however, being part of the core game. It seems like something that would go into the Eldritch tab or possibly have its own similar tab - most of which being forbidden knowledge, of course. Possibly use rotten flesh and/or bones to create Golem-like creatures to reanimate? Just ideas added onto that individual part. The others are interesting, but go along with what I stated earlier.

[Trentin996]

I was thinking on this further, but it would be interesting to assemble them in a manner almost similar to Infusion, but of its own necromantic sort, of course. In addition to that, as with unlocking to Golemancy tab, one must scan both a zombie and a skeleton to unlock Basic Necromancy, along with the tab itself. Building off of that, possibly have research like that of the Golemancy tab - in the sense of allowing for different materials to assemble your reanimatee with to increase their health and armor. Possibly even get it to the point that one can bring undead under their control? I mean, you'd have to be extremely powerful to do so, and even at that it wouldn't be easy, but eventually being able to simply point my staff or wand at the nearest zombie or skeleton and have it start fighting off nearby players or other hostile mobs would be pretty convenient. Maybe add some kind of grave system so that you can actually retrieve bodies? At all of that, though, it does sound as though it belongs in a completely different mod, or at the very greatest in an add-on for Thaumcraft, but I guess it's just thinking out loud.

[DeadSlayer54]

I've always wanted to make my own magic mod but had the problems of both few major ideas and the inability to mod, thaumcraft was a huge inspiration back to thinking about it. If the ideas stray too much from thaumcraft I can always try to learn modding and make my own mod, likely with a few tips of the hat towards thaumcraft, but I do see (if it is added to thaumcraft) the thing being a combo of maybe eldrich research and golemancy research. Perhaps a hidden path unlocked via rare artifacts found in extremely difficult dungeons?

[DeadSlayer54]

Anyway if it's not added again I can always learn to mod somehow and make my own magic mod, perhaps larger than just magic, I feel mine craft in general is long overdue for a magic system and an expanded combat system, beyond that of potion tipped arrows and shields that is. Since I can't mod yet I just plan them for when I can, that's where I generally came up with ideas in the first place

[Trentin996]

I could even potentially help with that, given a bit of time. I've some experience with programming, and haven't much trouble coming up with ideas like that. And, possible, it could run with the baubles system, or possibly something of the sort. It would be interesting to be able to not only get stronger via experience, so as you resurrect more and more you can do so more quickly, easily and cheaply, but also possibly allow for the acquisition of artifacts that even further increase those stats. Possibly even increasing the base stats of those units, along with increasing the number you can have? It would be good to limit the number you can have, especially for the sake of limiting lag. In that, it would be interesting as well to possibly stop enemies from disappearing at death and instead becoming a tangible part of the environment? Like, you can loot a dead zombie like a chest for its brain and flesh, but doing so would turn it into an actual skeleton, on the ground, from which you could actually loot bones? Then it'd just be gone, there'd be nothing left of it. If there's any way we can talk about this in a quicker way, just say so on here. This is legitimately interesting to me.

[Trentin996]

I was thinking on it even further, and the idea of entering a dungeon to obtain some form of Necronomicon would be interesting. Either leave it as its own stand alone Thaumonomicon of sorts, or have it function almost like the Crimson Rites book in opening the Eldritch tab. In addition that that, some kind of system similar to Warp, some way to penalize you for your actions through Necromancy, but in a way that you can overcome with experience, even as it worsens, or possibly alleviate or even turn to your advantage with artifacts?

[Trentin996]

And even further, this is beginning to have almost a Witchery/Ars Magica kind of feel. I'd try looking into those mods if I were you. It might give you some more ideas, but I feel this is taking more of a step towards that kind of style. It's not bad, though. It would be interesting to allow for the creation of spells to summon or resurrect enemies, especially if their corpses were actually left in game. Almost treat them like pets, of a sort. Or maybe be able to assign them to areas to guard them? Almost like Golems with a Guard seal. Possibly even be able to equip zombies with weapons and armor, but skeletons are too frail for that, I'd think, so possibly just be able to equip them with better bows? Maybe even those from Thaumcraft, along with Elemental Arrows? As for the combat system, a magic based one could also be interesting as well, something out of Ars Magica, as I stated, maybe. Or even possibly add weapons, for the 1.10 version style, at least, that are 2 handed? Maybe swing slower but do more damage, as seems to be the norm with weapons like that throughout all games. Possibly, for the magical sense of it, force someone to use something like a wand and/or spellbook at first to actually cast stuff or resurrect enemies, but possibly allow for, later, simply being able to just select what you want to do and be able to do so without the use of any form of item to channel that enemy. Just give me your thoughts on all of this, and, like I said, if there's any way to talk about this, possibly through any type of instant messager, that would be appreciated.

[gabeernie]

I personally love the idea of necromancy for thaumcraft. However, traditionally, necromancy usually involved summoning spirits of the dead, and not really raising the dead. But for this, I think it'd be cool to have a progression of summoning rituals to summon spirits like ghosts and animal spirits, then evemutually binding them to effigies, like scarecrows or flesh constructs (not actually raising a zombie but using Thaumaturgy on dead flesh to create a living but soulless body for the spirit to inhabit, it wouldn't be a sewed up pile of leftover parts, but rather a biologically complete organism magically grown from samples of flesh, in either humanoid- or more creaturesque forms) and finally very complex rituals to summon eldritch beings and creatures that possess their own form. Finding a new necronomicon like the Crimson rites in a new dungeon is an awesome idea, and I think it should unlock a new Tab with lore on souls and how to summon them via rituals and magical circles of binding (maybe a new multiblock ritual structure?)

[Trentin996]

That is an interesting concept, probably better than actually raising a corpse in its own. I'll give more thought to it and see how Slayer feels as to it.

[gabeernie]

Based on the idea of flesh constructs, it could be possible to grow/incubate a variety of outlandish creature that could act as pets/Familiars and mounts.

[Trentin996]

Possibly. However, I like the feel of more of a Golem-like construct than anything, if it's to fit with Thaumcraft.

[gabeernie]

Why not both. When you're using Thaumaturgical Necromancy to shape and earthly vessel for your soul summoning purposes, the possibilities are limitless. Humanoid flesh constructs can act as guardians and even assistants, more animal like creations may be attack dogs, companions, or the next best thing since sliced-horses. It probably would depend on the type of flesh you use to grow the thing....

[Trentin996]

Hmmm... it might be interesting to be able to trap the soul, or, for those less inclined to that path, "life essence" of those you kill to increase your overall power. Almost like the experience orbs of the Necromantic world. But, in doing so, you'd disallow from resurrecting that particular entity. Or even possibly allow one to collect it and allow one to use them to put into effigies to resurrect them, or to use them to add into perks to increase one's power in which.

[Trentin996]

Such as being able to increase the inherent armor, health and damage of those entities you create, increase the number you can have, maybe even increase the control you have over them. Possibly even then allow the channeling of that energy into spells of their own.

[Trentin996]

I feel more like, however, more of creating the entity you wish to resurrect as opposed to growing it, unless your're going more into a botanical construct. Something that could maybe actually move through the ground itself to attack? Almost maybe like Taintacles.

[gabeernie]

"Growing" as in incubation, not plant life. Imagine, soaking your choice of flesh, be it rotten, poultry, pork, or otherwise, in a crucible full of essentia, then plopping your sample of now-living flesh into a vat of thaumic liquids and watching your magical meddling in flesh-Thaumaturgy take shape, feeding it with various magical items in the process

[Trentin996]

Interesting concept, but I feel that using something like pork or other animal flesh would be less suitable. Possibly still killing them to obtain more power might be feasible.

[gabeernie]

Animal flesh would produce animalistic results. Chicken meat would contain avian DNA, and when tampered with thaumic energies and some good old necromancy (aka more expensive resources than chicken meat) the resulting flesh sample would gestate into a large, winged Necro-Fowl, capable of transporting players or carrying out deadly Arial executions. Wolf flesh would produce a sinister DireHound, a hairless canine monstrosity that can scale walls and ferociously defends it's master and his territory. Rotten flesh with its human DNA would allow for the most complex and intelligent flesh constructs, which may resemble warped humanoids, capable of welding weaponry and wands, mining, and accomplishing simple magical tasks (like crucible alchemy). All of these constructs would be soulless husks cultured from magically treated flesh, but would be lifeless until the Necromancer/Thaumaturge performs a ritual to summon an appropriate spirit and bind it to the vessel.

[DeadSlayer54]

What might work would be like for the sake of balancing out the convenience of reanimating your kills off the bat and having them aid you (like say if a horde of mobs are after you) you can do that at the cost of some of your life force (some hp and a level or two of experience ) but due to the improper reanimation the creature only lives for a short period. As for the types of dead and their uses I was thinking yeah bones are flimsy, but they'll be faster. Zombies will be stronger but slower, and capable of use as packhorses. This will be the reanimation of the dead, while you can also grab the parts of enemies (like bones, flesh, brain, etc) and you can build your soulless husk to animate as a golem. Also if you're interested in faster communication I can email you my KIK if you'd like. But the animation, I was considering reanimation will be putting your life force in a corpse (hp and experience) while golemancy type reanimating will be more materialistically expensive but you can also alter your host as need be. Some new dungeons I was even thinking of could be like Assassin's Creed assassin tombs, except for previous masters of the arts. In these you'll find magical traps, wards, and guard golems, along with the normally expected. As loot, you can find materials that are very handy in the mods along with magical tools and armors, even maybe a rare chance for a unique item available only in those dungeons, as well as the corpse of the great mage who was buried in the tomb. If you're far enough in the mod, you can probably use a soul gem or something to bind the image's spirit to and you can maybe summon him/her as either a familiar to give tips and advice or a golem as a very handy guard or worker but at the cost of any remaining info they might have

[DeadSlayer54]

As for the cap of max raised dead, maybe if you research enough you can find a means to offer your energy for their preservation, meaning they'll leach off your experience but won't lose health overtime. As you research more or maybe some artifacts you can lower the energy leach and health leach allowing for being able to afford more at once. Magical combat I actually have an idea, weapons are cool and all and more should totally be added, but magic wise I was thinking similar to the modpack from technic, the rpg one. What they did was they had you bind spells to your hotbar but it was a seperate one from your normal activated by holding shift while you selected your bound spell. Maybe that can work? also another person had a thaumcraft idea of more in depth wand creation allowing for customization of its appearance and effectiveness with certain magic natures. Maybe we can do that too, different wood for the shaft each with their pros and cons, Similarly instead of a one-cap-to-rule-them-all thing and the one cap type per wand, you can not only have a tip cap and a base cap, but also caps are more balanced by abilities depending on their nature. This info can probably be found in written-book notes one can find in a mage's tomb. Such as wooden caps are more nature based and work well with water, earth, and all around healing spells while iron is more strength based and more for fire and combat spells or something. Stages of wands can be shaft, cap(s), core, and maybe engravings of runes of power? This separate from the more mundane but much less powerful "two caps and a stick" thing for a quick "Gimme a wand" which will be quicker and cheaper but ultimately less powerful.

[gabeernie]

The wand thing was actually my idea haha, I hope azanor sees it. And if any of you guys on this thread are interested, feel free to bounce some ideas on the Focus Creation thread (a couple of topics above this)

[DeadSlayer54]

The idea of growing flesh sounds interesting, especially the results. Maybe we can also have perhaps an item dropping from the ghost thing at some eldrich shrines, guardians? not sure what they are, but we can make our own to allow the shrines to be used as teleportation markers, and if the player gets really far into both this add-on and thaumcraft's eldrich research they can use them and some summoned guardians to allow a shrine to become a gateway to the eldrich world, that can be fun.

[DeadSlayer54]

Really? awesome! If this becomes an add-on we can definitely use your idea if you'd like, I really like the idea of custom wands.

[gabeernie]

I think a good progression for necromancy would be summoning ghosts/spirit animals as well as reanimating/controlling zombies and skeletons (which are weak and clumsy, leading to the next level) then growing flesh constructs which aren't really dead, but summing souls to occupy them, then finally actually summoning eldritch beings like your own guardians and other eldritch creatures that you don't normally see in the outer lands.

[gabeernie]

Well, as much as I want my idea to become a reality, I'd rather leave it to azanor and see if he wants it in vanilla thaumcraft. I'd love to be a part of the team however, if this becomes an addon

[DeadSlayer54]

Well I think the necromancy should only be one part of summoning. Another part could be more druid like in the sense of a sort of enchanted animal call allowing you to call animals to you which can defend you in combat or aid in starting farms. Or a more elemental sort where you can summon a fire elemental or water etc to aid in combat. More so you can also (if you go the call path) trade with other animals, and rare chance trade them something for the location of ruins (dungeons) of interest

[DeadSlayer54]

And totally if this becomes an add-on you can totally join in, more people = more ideas = better add-on

[gabeernie]

Perhaps, for the sake of not having 20 different paths to progress in the mod, elemental summons could just be eldritch creatures from the void that have domain over specific elements? Example, a Fiery Eldritch Guardian, or an Earthen Void Beetle. As for calling animals, its not really summoning... plus animals aren't really that hard to come by. Perhaps in the first teir of necromantic ability (ghost and spirit conjuring) there could be a specific spirit that can be summoned, and on their own theyresearch fairly powerless, but they can be commanded to possess wild (living) animals temporarily and force them to fight for you.

[DeadSlayer54]

Perhaps, elemental eldrich can be pretty neat, maybe with their own separate attack styles if encountered in the wild as opposed to summoned.

[DeadSlayer54]

The eldrich though, what would there be? I never could get very far in the eldrich research, so I don't have much of a grasp of what they are as a nature

[gabeernie]

The eldritch beings are, from my understanding, semi incorporeal entities ofor great magical power. While they do take on specific shapes and appear to have mass, they don't seem to be made of the same matter as most things, and therefore disobey many natural laws. Eldritch guardians appear as large floating hooded figures and are accompanied by an eerie fog. Shambling husks are the petrified remains of crimson cultists, warped beyond memory by eldritch magic and lost in the halls of the outer lands. Eldritch crabs are large beetle like creatures that infest the forgotten reaches of the eldritch maze. While those constitute the majority of eldritch creatures you may encounter- a skilled necromancer can summon a much larger variety of these alien beings, in many humanoid or monstrous forms...

[DeadSlayer54]

How does one go farther into the eldrich research I've never heard of the shambling husks nor the eldrich crabs nor the eldrich maze

[gabeernie]

Email me your kik! Gabeernie@gmail.com

[Trentin996]

Update: To anyone who may have cared even in the slightest, the three us of prior participants are discussing ideas privately, but there may be hope for this.

[SpiderOverlord]

I've always wanted to see necromancy in thaumcraft, so I'll keep and eye on this

[DeadSlayer54]

I'm glad this has interested you, if you have ideas feel free to share

[SpiderOverlord]

perhaps there should be a set of tools and armor made from semi-living flesh that has been slightly strengthened by iron nuggets... an early game form of void metal equipment. basically a set of stone tier equipment that can "heal" itself, however this could come at the cost of the player as the equipment is parasitic and will feed off of the players food bar

[Trentin996]

Sounds f***ing horrifying.

[SpiderOverlord]

but then again voidmetal seems pretty warm for a metal...

[Trentin996]

Well, yeah - it's made using forbidden magics. Of course it's gonna be creepy. A lot less horrifying than armor that freaking eats you.

[SpiderOverlord]

armor that eats the player... nice idea for a mob...

[Trentin996]

Thaumcraft - the Outer Lands. Check out the wiki page. http://thaumcraft-5.wikia.com/wiki/The_Outer_Lands

[SpiderOverlord]

XD never thought of the shambling husk as something that eats the player, but anyways I've revised the living equipment, instead of using iron nuggets and rotten flesh, I changed the recipe to use bones and rotten flesh (plus a dash of perditio and ordo) to create living flesh. the crafting recipe for the living equipment is obvious (although bones are used instead of sticks) also there is an upgraded set (since there's thaumium fortress armor + primal tools, and void thaumaturge robes + crimson blade and primal crusher) the armor (living abomination armor) is crafted by reinforcing the existing armor with more living flesh (minus the boots) and the multi-tool (living bludgeon) is created by surrounding a bone wand core with all of the tools (minus the backhoe) plus some more living flesh. the upgraded living equipment is made using infusion (each of medium instability) "heals" itself much faster then before and is about the same tier as iron. beware as the equipment is even more parasitic for it will leach off of your regen (can be healed with regen an healing potions)

[Trentin996]

Still sounds freaking horrifying. Anyway, I feel that it'd have to eat you as opposed to simply leech off your food.

[SpiderOverlord]

hmm not a bad idea, I've edited the post above

[SpiderOverlord]

anyways another equipment idea of mine: infernal equipment. first of all this set of equipment is end game and it uses a new drop: wither bones. wither bone are (quite obviously) dropped from wither skeletons instead of the normal bones. these bones don't have much use by default aside from making wither meal, the inverse of bone meal (kills off plants, grows nether wart) and a wither bone wand and staff core (holds slightly more vis then the normal bone variants and will regenerate ignis and perditio at a higher then normal rate) the equipment itself is combat oriented thus it only consist of a weapon and an armor set. the weapon is called the infernal scythe, it's crafted by taking a wither bone staff core and an imbued wither bone, plus 3 void metal ingots and a wither skull. the infernal armor is crafted by taking imbued wither bones, void metal and in the helmets case a wither skull. (both recipes are infusion crafting of dangerous instability, the aspects are for you guys to decide on) the infernal scythe deals 8+ attack damage can repair itself and will inflict the wither debuff on your foes. the armor offers more protection then standard diamond armor, repairs itself and offers immunity to the wither debuff. each item in the set has warping 3 on it. edit: imbued wither bones: these are obtained by infusing a single wither bone with a nether star (infusion recipe, instability of dangerous) these bones are used for the infernal equipment

[Trentin996]

Wither skeletons aren't that tough. Anyway, bone usually isn't all too strong, with their only being one practical application throughout the game - the Bone Bow. At that, Wither skeletons aren't very rare either, making it a bit ridiculous to allow for them to be the source of a high level set of items - even if it were a rare drop from them, which wouldn't make much sense, as how can a creature made entirely of bone not drop even at least a single bone? The Infernal Furnace was a good idea, but a line of Infernal items is less so. Sorry.