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BEEmod / BEE2-items

Standard Items for the BEE2.4
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Add "Start Enabled" to turrets to give them super-damage, and change their skin. #1150

Open ghost opened 7 years ago

ghost commented 7 years ago

I think the title says it all.

TheDarkBomber commented 7 years ago

I don't think you can adjust the kill strength of the turrets.

ghost commented 7 years ago

I know that a friend has using hammer. He has done so for laser beams also.

TheDarkBomber commented 7 years ago

Hammer is NOT the same as PeTi (in-game editor), which means that Hammer can do things that are not possible to implement in BEE2.4.

ghost commented 7 years ago

I know that hammer is not peti. I also know that the BEE items do a whole lot of things not possible in stock peti. I don't personally know what is possible and what isn't possible to implement into items in BEE. If it's possible, it would be useful. If it's impossible, it's impossible...

TeamSpen210 commented 7 years ago

I can implement most anything that you can do in Hammer. Turrets only have one relevant option - 'Enable Super Damage' - which makes them much more powerful. It's probably better though to place more turrets, one turret suddenly killing you almost instantly would be very frustrating and confusing.

TheDarkBomber commented 7 years ago

Maybe make it a separate turret which has a different (custom) skin.

Byzarru commented 7 years ago

I think the Camo or the "What Idiot Picked These" skins would be the most appropriate. Camo would imply that this is a tactical-grade turret.

Ed: Naval for 50s, 60s, Prime 50s, and Old Aperture BTS; Forest for 70s, 80s, and P1 BTS; Desert for Portal 1 and Portal 2 BTS, and Idiot? for Portal 2. I think these skins correspond roughly to the military situation at the time.

Ed. 2: Specialized turret should be called "Military Turret" or "Military-Grade Turret". Each era should have its specialized skin variant, but the other skins should be available as alternative options.

ghost commented 7 years ago

Honestly, if there was a super-powered turret, I would be very pleased. That is the only version I would ever use. A different skin would be gravy.

sloppysteve commented 7 years ago

I have used the "Badass Turret" in a map and it was effective, however... one may blitz the turret as it is shutting down and grab it, so a single turret must be protected by a distance or some other barrier to prevent this. I do like that a turret can be friendly also. It would be really cool to trigger the turret into friendly or unfriendly modes. They also have adjustable ranges.

vrad-exe commented 7 years ago

@Byzarru It should just be a "start enabled" or something.

Byzarru commented 7 years ago

Aren't TNT turrets also going to be implemented? And defective turrets? And can't turrets be connected to outputs (kill a turret, open a door, etc)? This is about making a turret stronger and giving it another skin. No other item has a relative like this (except stairs, maybe) accessible through "Start Enabled".

vrad-exe commented 7 years ago

If you can connect turrets to things, I didn't know about it...

Byzarru commented 7 years ago

An additional feature is that you can set them to be friendly, as mentioned by SloppySteve (Which should probably be what Start Enabled dictates, rather than skin or functionality).

The turret apparently gives outputs (I'm looking at the npc page for it right now), and there are maps in the workshop that use this functionality.

Ed: Being tipped is probably what the output should be.

sloppysteve commented 7 years ago

See this page for info on the turrets: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Npc_portal_turret_floor

The "Citizen modified (Friendly)" feature is a flagged item. It will only determine if it will shoot at a player or not. The active/inactive feature is an input item that could be linked to some trigger or other input. So "start active/inactive" could do just that with the "connect to" being tied to an element or trigger. The model of the turret could be selected by the "cube type" menu item. The "Use Super Damage" could be tied to the "portable" check box. The range could be selected using the timer menu item to select the number of blocks that it can see in front of it and shoot at. I would prefer the un-gagged version and that the player be pushed back by bullets as well as shooting through portals. The turret is really overlooked in the map editor in my opinion and could really be more useful if all of it's capabilities were available.

Byzarru commented 7 years ago

There was also an idea floating around to be able to change the turret's skin with the timers.

sloppysteve commented 7 years ago

Skins might be cool but I would take the range adjustment if I had to choose.

Byzarru commented 7 years ago

Skins might be cool but I would take the range adjustment if I had to choose.

Turrets are a crappy item to use trial and error with. Players enter a map with expectations that a=a and turrets have the same function they had in the last map. Sure, you can explain in your description that turrets in your maps are snipers, or one-hit-kill-wonders, or pussycats, but items used in BEE have come to be understood by the rest of the community as their hard and fast mechanics (purple field keeps people out, orange field lets portals through) and you can't count on people to look up items in the workshop. Specialties and novelties are the hallmark of Hammer maps. For the purposes of BEE, I think it would be best to have separate and distinct turrets (Standard, Friendly, Super, Sniper) with traits that players will come to expect, rather than giving turrets full functionality but no discerning marks.

Although I do like the idea of full functionality, turrets gotta turret.

Ed: iff any of the features we mentioned are included in the first place...

TeamSpen210 commented 7 years ago

One thing to remember is that the various turret skins you see aren't actually models - they're only seen in the elevator videos. We can't use those, unless someone was to go and recreate the texture. I would like to add the ability to turn turrets off (so they go completely inactive).

Byzarru commented 7 years ago

The active/inactive feature is an input item that could be linked to some trigger or other input. So "start active/inactive" could do just that with the "connect to" being tied to an element or trigger.

I would like to add the ability to turn turrets off (so they go completely inactive).

That could be Input A.

The turret apparently gives outputs (I'm looking at the npc page for it right now), and there are maps in the workshop that use this functionality. Ed: Being tipped is probably what the output should be.

This could be an interesting mechanic to work with. I think this map uses this functionality (you need to destroy all of the turrets to progress).

One thing to remember is that the various turret skins you see aren't actually models - they're only seen in the elevator videos. We can't use those, unless someone was to go and recreate the texture.

Could turrets use tentative textures (approximating their skins) if there is any development on them? Are you considering any of these ideas, and if so, which direction do you want to go in?

TeamSpen210 commented 7 years ago

The only problem is that Cube items can cause crashes when you connect antlines to them (when floating in mid-air). I'll have to ensure that turrets don't do the same thing, before adding these outputs.

sloppysteve commented 7 years ago

Maybe just put an indicator that is a turret symbol next to the activator.

sloppysteve commented 7 years ago

Here is a demo I made of the functionality I would like to see with a turret. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=815317682