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BMR59 / Portu-WhatsApp

Communications between Portuguese L2 Speakers and Native Speakers via WhatsApp
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Tagging laughter in TEI #4

Open BMR59 opened 6 years ago

BMR59 commented 6 years ago

Scanning the TEI element list, we are stuck on how to wrap laughter. We thought about maybe using from the Core Module, or even from the Dictionary Module. We thought about using different elements from the Transcribed Speech module, but the only ones that fit the bill are empty elements, not wrappers. Do you guys have any input? Could we somehow write those empty elements as open ones in our ODD? @ebeshero @ghbondar

ebeshero commented 6 years ago

@BMR59 sorry for my delay in responding! I have been on my way to Victoria, BC for the TEI Conference! Yes, we can certainly redefine elements you want from TEI so they may contain text nodes, but maybe there will be a simpler solution. Can you list out the elements you want to use here? And, ideally, link to their definition “spec” pages in the TEI so we can take a closer look together? I can also ask colleagues for advice out here, surrounded as I will Be by TEI people!

ebeshero commented 6 years ago

@BMR59 A thought: have you looked at the rs amd ab elements in TEI? These can be given attributes and devoted to various project-customized purposes...take a look and see if they might work.

ghbondar commented 6 years ago

@BMR59 @ebeshero Presumably, you have looked in the Transcribed Speech tagset? http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/TS.html ... I see from your final XSLT assignment that you are using the u (for "utterance") tag, which would be my guess for tagging laughter. http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-u.html @ebeshero @zme1

BMR59 commented 6 years ago

@ebeshero @ghbondar I think rs with the 'type' attribute will work nicely! We were having trouble finding something that could be nested within the the u tag especially because any elements designated for laughter were empty elements used for transcribed speech. Thank you for the help!!

ebeshero commented 6 years ago

@BMR59 Great! This is the first time I've seen <u> in use, as I more typically work with <sp> in coding drama with changes of speaker. Looking it up just now in the Guidelines, I think it's a great choice for rapid-fire conversations.

Rethinking the tag for laughter, though--I think I'd better caution you away from <rs>: It's really meant for something like pronoun usage: to indicate who or what is being referred to by a string of text. I think what we really want here is probably <kinesic> which seems custom-fit for use here, doesn't it? It's part of the Spoken module (same module as <u>) and designed to fit inside it. What think you?

ebeshero commented 6 years ago

@BMR59 And the great thing about <kinesic> is, we don't have to modify the content model of <u> in your ODD to design something for laughter. TEI already has you covered!

BMR59 commented 6 years ago

@ebeshero Would we be able modify in the ODD so that it could contain text? Oxygen gets angry whenever there it text within kinesic and calls for either the end tag or the desc element.

ebeshero commented 6 years ago

@BMR59 Ahh! Looking at existing examples in the Guidelines for <kinesic>, I see the issue, and given the definition of of the element's usage, I think they constrained it overmuch: "marks any communicative phenomenon, not necessarily vocalized, for example a gesture, frown, etc."

Yes, we can certainly modify the ODD to change <kinesic>. You or @zme1 could give this a whack, or I could jump in if you need help. I'm also of a mind to open a ticket with the TEI about this. The content model of <kinesic> permits a <desc> element inside (for things like describing someone nodding vigorously, etc), but that doesn't make much sense if you're adapting this to text representations of kinesic behavior!

BMR59 commented 6 years ago

@ebeshero Awesome! I think we will stick with kinesic then and attempt to rectify things through the ODD. Looking throughout the TEI modules, there didn't seem to be many options for written laughter. But, once everything is all set, I'll run through and code laughter with kinesic and perhaps a 'type' attribute to distinguish between Brazilian and English styles of written laughter! Thank you for the help!!

ebeshero commented 6 years ago

@BMR59 Perfect! And as I am delivering a talk in a few hours here at University of Victoria about Teaching with TEI, I'm actually patching our conversation in as a late-breaking example! :-D Ping me if you need help modifying the ODD, but I bet @zme1 can handle it...