Typhus + Chaos Space Marine Codex

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Warhammer 40,000: 7th Edition

http://battlescribedata.appspot.com/#/repo/wh40k-7th-edition

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Typhus + Chaos Space Marine Codex #2157

Closed Shadowed0ne closed 8 years ago

Shadowed0ne commented 8 years ago

At the moment, as long as Typhus is in the army, he can upgrade any Chaos Cultists into Plague Zombies. This includes Chaos Cultists taken in formations, i.e. Helcult and Cult of Slaughter.

Can you change the cultists to be changed as an option? Or give the formations an option to swap them if Typhus is in the army?

OftKilted commented 8 years ago

Isnt cult of slaighter a Crimson Slaughter formation? If so, typhus cannot be taken as part of a crimson slaighter army as they can't have any units other than plague marines and Berzerkers with veterans of the long war.

cartag commented 8 years ago

The only reason I'm setting this as vague is because of the CSM restrictions and terminology differences between 6E and 7E. For the Helcult it is an obvious inclusion that needs to be made. Given that supplements and the wide berth of options available to us wasn't there in the first codex of 6E, it leaves some interpretation. Typhus isn't legal to bring in a Crimson Slaughter force though, hence my hesitation. Ongoing discussion.

Drachnyen commented 8 years ago

One could take a CAD (vanilla) with typhus in it. And then use a cult of slaughter formation from Crimson fist. Then use the first paragraph of page 87 of the Crimson slaughter book rule to "make" the first detachment a crimson fist one.

Drachnyen commented 8 years ago

@cartag where do you see that Typhus is not allowed in a crimson slaughter force? I could not find any reference to it. Thanks.

thejughead commented 8 years ago

Forces of the Crimson Slaughter page:

RENEGADES OF THE DARK MILLENNIUM No units in a Crimson Slaughter Detachment or Formation can have the Veterans of the Long War special rule except Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines and Noise Marines.

cartag commented 8 years ago

As @thejughead stated, the only models that can have VotLW are those three choices. This includes HQ choices and Thousands Sons.

Shadowed0ne commented 8 years ago

Like @Drachnyen said, Typhus would be part of the CAD while Cult of Slaughter would be it's own Crimson Slaughter Formation.

Typhus Plague Zombies special rule says "Any Chaos Cultist units in the same army as Typhus can be nominated as Plague Zombies." Typhus wouldn't be in the Crimson Slaughter formation, but it his own CAD, but still affecting other formation/detachments in the army. Unless I'm missing something.

cartag commented 8 years ago

Logically speaking though he should have the ability to affect cultists he controls, if they're part of a different force they wouldn't be. It's been asked on the 40k Facebook page also.

This shouldn't be allowed for KDK cultists, for example as they are different from CSM cultists.

cartag commented 8 years ago

Don't forget, the codex comes from a time when we didn't have formations, everything had a FOC, and there were no supplements. "Army" as mentioned then had an entirely different context than it does today.

Drachnyen commented 8 years ago

I agree with Cartag that it was probably not intended to be used in the suggested fashion.

Fluff wise: Why would Crimson slautgher bring zombies to a fight? They don't use zombies.

thejughead commented 8 years ago

RAW, yes to zombies; RAI, no codex is too old and before detachments. What is the usual protocol for this RAW or RAI?

Drachnyen commented 8 years ago

Don't know about protocol, I'll let Cartag answer.

It's a great question for the upcoming CSM FAQ, I'll send it their way.

cartag commented 8 years ago

I think the consensus we came to when discussing it is as follows.

Setting any formation able to be taken by CSM vanilla or Black Legion to swap out for Plague Zombies, including Apocalypse formations.
Question has been submitted to GW on if it would affect Crimson Slaughter formations (since Typhus can't be part of a Crimson Slaughter detachment), and how to interpret rule in the age of Detachments and Formations being par for the course.
This won't affect KDK in the slightest, given that the rule specifies a page number for the Cultist unit. Plus the unit size is different, different special rules, etc.

If you can come up with a compelling counterargument it's up for discussion.

cartag commented 8 years ago

For the time being, this may be as official as we can get.

hisop commented 8 years ago

Are we waiting for an official faq, or are we taking this for now and closing the issue?