Considerations on other Trade options for Gem Dealers

[Raven-dreams]

Couple ideas on the Gem Dealer trades.

As of current the cost to value doesn't seem to be very worthwhile. A single block of ore is worth more than 2 Emeralds + 1 Block for 2 of the item.

An Idea that could work a bit better would be to say use a resource that people would/could have in abundance i.e. copper, and use it for the trade. However to make it still a worthwhile trade, and not an easy street to the more valuable resource it would have to be a rather large amount of copper. I'm not sure the exact amount at this moment, as that would need some testing and feedback to narrow it down.,

Something else to consider would be to get the Wiki update for the Villager trades as they currently are, it would help greatly to evaluate their current offers and what the impacts are. Without knowing it right now, I'm not sure if this other thought is already there or not.

Could put in one of the trades being Diamonds > Rubies/Sapphires , or Rubies > Sapphires or Sapphires > Rubies.

Since not every player is going to be able to go to every type of Biome looking for the items. I know of many that the only way they ever get Emeralds is through Villager/Wandering Trader deals.

[BarchamMal]

Genius! this is a great idea. Now, let me think: I know that it's difficult to (by mining) get all of emeralds, ruby, and sapphire, but one is not too bad. I think I'll do stuff based on these values:

• diamond = 1 diamond
• ruby = 2 diamond
• sapphire = 2 diamond
• lapis = 1/10 diamond
• emerald = 1/10 diamond
• amethyst = 1/20 diamond
• gold = 1/5 diamond
• silver = 1/10 diamond
• copper = 1/30 diamond
• corundum = 4 ruby + 4 sapphire + 1 diamond = 17 diamond

So, let's make some trades:	Level	In	Second	Out
Novice	Emerald	2 Amethyst
Novice	Lapis	Emerald
Novice	Diamond Ore	8 Copper	3 Diamond
Novice	Lapis Ore	4 Copper	9 Lapis
Apprentice	Deepslate Diamond Ore	6 Silver	3 Diamond
Apprentice	Deeplsate Lapis Ore	3 Silver	9 Lapis
Apprentice	2 Gold	Emerald
Apprentice	8 Copper	Emerald
Apprentice	4 Silver	Emerald
Apprentice	Nether Quartz Ore	2 Copper	Nether Quartz
Journeyman	12 Emerald	Echo Shard
Journeyman	Quartz Block	Copper	4 Quartz
Journeyman	4 Glass	Gold Nugget	Emerald
Journeyman	Crying Obsidian	Emerald	Ghast Tear
Journeyman	Obsidian	16 Emerald	Crying Obsidian
Journeyman	Crying Obsidian	3 Emerald
Journeyman	2 Emerald	Obsidian
Expert	Raw Copper	Emerald	2 Copper
Expert	Raw Silver	5 Copper Nuggets	2 Silver
Expert	Raw Gold	4 Silver Nuggets	2 Gold
Expert	Ruby Ore	Gold	3 Ruby
Expert	Sapphire Ore	Silver	3 Sapphire
Expert	Emerald Ore	Copper	4 Emerald
Master	Ruby	15 Emerald
Master	Sapphire	15 Emerald
Master	3 Silver	2 Emerald
Master	Raw Copper Block	Emerald	13 Copper
Master	Raw Silver Block	Silver Nugget	11 Silver
Master	Raw Gold Block	Gold Nugget	11 Gold
Master	Deepslate Ruby Ore	Gold	3 Ruby
Master	Deepslate Sapphire Ore	Silver	3 Sapphire

[Raven-dreams]

Ok some of those are actually really good trade ideas. As in the below list.

1 Emerald to 2 Amethyst (not sure if 2 is enough, maybe 4? give a whole block out since some people I think might enjoy using it for enchanting rooms/ potions making rooms)

1 Lapis to 1 Emerald is a decent idea, defiantly not a 1 to 1 though, lapis drops in quite large quantities on its own.

Are you thinking of 2 Gold Block or 2 Gold Ingots? Block I think would be better than Ingots, Gold is rather easy to come across, maybe just a single Block?

Also is that 8 Copper Blocks or 8 Copper Ingots? If Ingots Copper tends to drop anywhere from 2-5 Ore per raw block, so is 8 2 few? That would be at worst needing 4 raw ore blocks, or just 2.

The Silver seems interesting, I admit I wasn't paying close enough attention to the drop rates when me and my partner were mining it.

The 12 Emerald to a Echo Shard seems reasonable, since Echo Shards can be rather hard to find to start with.

The Quartz Block and 1 Copper to 4 Quartz shards seems reasonable.

4 Glass and Gold Nugget to 1 Emerald, actually seems like a good one, but would it be better at Novice level?

The 4 trades with Obsidian actually seem just fine

The Ruby and Sapphire at Master level seem just fine.

I'm still confused why you want to use the raw ore blocks? Silk Touch doesn't give any experience orbs for using it to obtain the item. And you only get 3-6 points per villager trade, with an extra 5 if they level up. Where as just mining the ore block gives between 2-7 XP each. (And yes you could potently get 0 with Coal and Nether Gold though, but the Coal is in large quantities you likely average 1 per block, and Nether Gold raw blocks net 1 each when smelting them) And then you can get another small amount from processing the raw ore vial smelting, though the Nether gold ore and ancient debris give the best value.

But on another completely unrelated note, your mods for the Zombies and Enchantments are fantastic and really fun to use.

[BarchamMal]

1 Emerald to 2 Amethyst (not sure if 2 is enough, maybe 4? give a whole block out since some people I think might enjoy using it for enchanting rooms/ potions making rooms)

maybe you're right about emerald amethyst. I have to say though, in my own worlds I hardly ever come across it... then again, I thought ruby was far too common for a while.

1 Lapis to 1 Emerald is a decent idea, defiantly not a 1 to 1 though, lapis drops in quite large quantities on its own.

While true, I find that the veins of lapis ore are extremely rare, although you need only one vein for the entire game basically. I'll think about it.

Are you thinking of 2 Gold Block or 2 Gold Ingots? Block I think would be better than Ingots, Gold is rather easy to come across, maybe just a single Block?

Clerics buy 4 gold per emerald, and I think that can be got down to 3 after selling enough. I think I'll change the highest price for the gem dealer (I mean, you'd expect to get a better deal from this fellow, his whole trade is precious gems and metals) the lowest price from the cleric, in other words, 3.

Also is that 8 Copper Blocks or 8 Copper Ingots? If Ingots Copper tends to drop anywhere from 2-5 Ore per raw block, so is 8 2 few? That would be at worst needing 4 raw ore blocks, or just 2.

4 ore blocks or 2 seems good enough, I always have copper sitting around, and it would be nice to be able to get 8 emeralds per stack... seems reasonable enough to me... but I suppose if someone plays Minecraft and their focus is on mining, well, they will have lots of emeralds.

4 Glass and Gold Nugget to 1 Emerald, actually seems like a good one, but would it be better at Novice level?

Yes.

I'm still confused why you want to use the raw ore blocks? Silk Touch doesn't give any experience orbs for using it to obtain the item. And you only get 3-6 points per villager trade, with an extra 5 if they level up. Where as just mining the ore block gives between 2-7 XP each. (And yes you could potently get 0 with Coal and Nether Gold though, but the Coal is in large quantities you likely average 1 per block, and Nether Gold raw blocks net 1 each when smelting them) And then you can get another small amount from processing the raw ore vial smelting, though the Nether gold ore and ancient debris give the best value.

Well. I never really considered or cared about xp from most ores. my view was "If you want xp, go kill enemies at night, or mine quartz in the nether." I've always been irked when somehow, from 8 blocks of diamond ore, I got only 8 diamonds! So I'd use this one a lot, cause it's assured max.

But on another completely unrelated note, your mods for the Zombies and Enchantments are fantastic and really fun to use.

Great! [Developers note: use the lighting bow enchantment while you can, it has a 75% (instead of the correct 7.5%) chance of summoning lightning... until the next update of the mod.]

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But like I said, If you, like me, spend only <25% of your time mining, this is fair, if you spend 30-60% of your time mining, well, this seems really unbalanced. But I would argue that you deserve the reward for your efforts.

[BarchamMal]

But on another completely unrelated note, your mods for the Zombies and Enchantments are fantastic and really fun to use.

Also unrelated, but try the skinning mod (maybe not in a current world though, it's a bit breaking right now, as it's unfinished) I'm dying to hear feedback about it.

[Raven-dreams]

But on another completely unrelated note, your mods for the Zombies and Enchantments are fantastic and really fun to use.

Also unrelated, but try the skinning mod (maybe not in a current world though, it's a bit breaking right now, as it's unfinished) I'm dying to hear feedback about it.

Looked interesting, but since we setup Farmers Delight the two of them would of made part of each redundant. Same with the

[Raven-dreams]

But like I said, If you, like me, spend only <25% of your time mining, this is fair, if you spend 30-60% of your time mining, well, this seems really unbalanced. But I would argue that you deserve the reward for your efforts.

I see your point of view on that. I do know many players will vary from the mining/building/exploring. I have a group I follow and watch often, the Mine O' Clock crew from Loading Ready Run. They typically play various custom built Mod Packs and adventure maps. Its one reason why I was saying Silk Touch is not as commonly used as Fortune for an enchantment.

Personally I tend to avoid setting up auto farms. I used to do it when I was much younger starting Minecraft back in very early Beta. But now I like to keep inventory low, and go explore for my building resources. Partner likes to play with the animals and farms and go into deep massive caverns. So that's how we tend to uncover our ore. The massive caves and caverns produce so much resources that we never have to do the typical sort of mining into walls that most people I believe would think to do.

That's why I was commenting on the various ores being rather common or finding them in such massive quantities.

When I setup our mod packs for the worlds we want to play in, I always find new ore and tool mods, you can get bored of the basic ones after playing for so long. And your mod is a really good idea and very well presented in its current form. I just personally thought it could use a little minor adjusting here and there to get it to fall in line with more of the basic features of Minecraft so that it truly just felt like it was something that already existed and more natural feeling.

But yes many players have different play styles so will see it differently. Your Tin and Copper to Bronze is a really neat idea and something I've not seen much in the past, other than the Tinkers Construct mod, but that is a very limited access to people.

And yes I know many mod developers are rather busy with things, Be it school or work or family, so obviously this project is a work on when you have time, type of thing.

I'm still looking through the villager trades in your mod files and working on finding the locations for how you setup the villager trades for the mod. I know a bit more than some people and lot less than other, on how to read the code information presented.

[BarchamMal]

Right. Now, this may take longer than expected because I'll have to implement a new TradeOffers.Factory (Either I'll call it NonEmeraldFactory because you can have things like in: Diamond ore, eight copper, and out: 3 diamonds or I'll call it ExplicitFactori, cause it's not implicit at all) but I think I'll be implementing these all soon.

[Raven-dreams]

Right. Now, this may take longer than expected because I'll have to implement a new TradeOffers.Factory (Either I'll call it NonEmeraldFactory because you can have things like in: Diamond ore, eight copper, and out: 3 diamonds or I'll call it ExplicitFactori, cause it's not implicit at all) but I think I'll be implementing these all soon.

Fully understandable, these things take time, testing, and evaluating expectations of results.

[Raven-dreams]

And its going to take me some time, to remember and decipher what I'm reading in the mod code. Last time I did any of this was with versions 1.08 and 1.16 in Forge, not Fabric.

[BarchamMal]

Never mind. I've implemented the factory already. this should be completed soon.... although, I think that from now on (or at least "on") I'll have suggestions only be as discussions...

[BarchamMal]

This is now completed. But I will leave it opened for the moment.

[BarchamMal]

And its going to take me some time, to remember and decipher what I'm reading in the mod code. Last time I did any of this was with versions 1.08 and 1.16 in Forge, not Fabric.

Also, if you would like to help with something not code related, Try updating the wiki. if you want to help that is.