gameplay balance + pricing + availability

[CptMoore]

we just copy and paste rules from TT, but how well do they translate to the game mechanics?

availability + pricing

shops

• not all engines should be stock, only the bare minimum
• std but different engine ratings can only pop up on manufacturing worlds
• exotic engines can only pop up on other worlds (comp + light would be research worlds, xl would be former SLDF presence)

salvage

• this would provide stock engine and what more?

stock mechs

• SLDF mechs should come with state of the art stuff, endo-steel, xl engine, ferros-fibrous

[CptMoore]

@CrusherBob you have written before that you have worked on this, whats the status on this? need help? whats missing?

[CrusherBob]

Was planning to just make regular engines pretty readily available, ans wait for feedback from the mod users on things like:

How often do they lose engines? (if they are using 'empty salvaged mech mod) how much trouble are they having getting engines to put in their mechs? How much (extra) money are they making from selling salvaged engines?

---

Then put up some optional shop files that also make XL and DHS readily available, and see what the general feedback on them is.

Standard would be that XL + DHS has some chance of showing up on star league presence worlds, and DHS also has a chance of showing up on black market worlds.

But think that would make them hard enough to get that there wouldn't be proper feedback about them. Thus, the optional shop files.

[CptMoore]

I have added some shop files, but basically just added random stuff to them, if you can please fix those

[CptMoore]

from CrusherBob

There's some game design theory about avoiding 'death spirals': where an 'early' loss means that you can't win the game, but if you don't know enough about the game, you don't know you passed the no win point some time ago. Xcom is sorta infamous for that; at least some work went into specifically avoiding that for Battletech, though. That's why, for example, new mechs and new guns seem relatively easy to get. If you almost never take internal damage and never really lose any guns, then you are swimming in replacements. But have seen at least some forum posts where people seem to be losing bits left and right.

That's part of why I wanted to look at how things like engine destruction on mechs, common-ness of available salvaged engines, and so one would actually work in the campaign before committing the making bog standard engines in shops 'rare'.

But for a real test, we need also some people to play who are much worse at the game. So my default idea was simply to make up to rating 200 or so engines available at any shop that sold an LRM10, and make the 201-400 rating engines available at shops at industrial worlds (or whatever the actual shop flag is) that sell LRM15s and 20s.

Then, if engines were common enough in the game after some playtesting, see about making them appear in the shop 'special' section, rather than the 'inventory' section. Of course, any rarer engine can be much rarer, as you don't need a special engine to drop your mechs in contracts.

On engine pricing: In TT, bigger engines make mechs more expensive. But looking at the in game cost of mechs, the faster ones (with bigger engines) aren't really any more expensive that the slower mechs. Example: a 50 ton 4/6 mech (centurion) is 2,692,000 for just the engine, chassis, etc; a 50 ton 5/8 mech (trebuchet) is 3,392,000

In the game, centurion A 4.2M | Centurion AL 4.3M | Trebuchet 4.6M

So my spitball answer to the cost of engines was to make std engines 500,000 C-Bills: expensive, but not likely to either break the bank if you had to buy them; nor likely to give you a lot of spare money if you had a lot of salvaged ones to sell.

Then Engines with DHS would cost 1.1M (in game each DHS is around 600,000 c-bills); but ~6.5M might actually be a better number.

I'm not sure what pricing to set for DHS in engine, since that's pretty much the biggest single upgrade possible for any mech. Of course, in TT it's quite cheap (around 100,000 C-bills).

[CptMoore]

@CrusherBob

I made some changes to the costs of an engine, I used the CBT rules and assumed a 75 ton mech for all calculations. https://github.com/CptMoore/MechEngineMod/blob/62e08ee16b31451ebdce8c711f6d15442eef0011/engine_generator/generate.sh#L30 That makes engine cost way too much for light mechs and a bit cheap for assault mechs. I also added a flag "autofixmechdefs" that auto-adds free engines to mechs when those are bought or rewarded from missions. Those are "cheap" in comparison as no additional costs are calculated.

A DHS conversion kit to convert and engine to DHS costs like 10 DHS.

[Aliencreature]

I would like to revisit store availability, especially if you intend to go with the split between rating and shielding and taking into account the death spiral theory. I went through the tabletop files for the mechs currently in game that appear early, and the engines that seem to be the most abundant (and used by most mechs) are:

STD 150 STD 180 STD 200 STD 240 STD 250 STD 260 (for several heavies)

There are several outliers. Jenners use an STD 245 instead of either a 240 or a 250, but they could do fine with either one of them if their original engine is lost. Locusts use an STD 160 but could easily take an STD 150 as a replacement. Cicadas use oversized engines (low 300s or 280) stock, but I imagine most players will want to downgrade them because of their limited tonnage until they can switch to an XL. Anything using a 240 or a 260 can take a 250 in a pinch. So based on that, I think the following ratings should be universally available at a discount on all planets:

150 200 250

Because of how common they are in the Battletech universe, and the fact that they are surrounded by commonly used ratings, there would be plentiful replacement parts available. It also ensures that the 'death spiral' doesn't happen: if a player loses an STD 240 on their Spider, for example, they can easily replace it with a 250 and take a hit on firepower instead of having to severely downgrade the mech or send it to storage.

Planets with industry should in addition have a wider stock of ratings that are close to those commonly used:

060 180 225 275 300 325

On higher levels of industry with/without trade hub status, the other engine ratings can be available as specials that might appear with their weight based on how obscure they are. Compact shielding would also be found on these planets.

Planets with a former SLDF presence OR current Commstar + Black market would have a chance to have Star League era technology such as:

XL shielding Endosteel Ferro

Planets with research and industry might have as specials the following:

Light shielding Endo-composite Heavy/light Ferro Stealth armor

Finally, Clan techbase equipment would have a low chance of appearing on all planets with black market, and an increased chance of appearing on black market + trade hub or black market + research. XXL shielding would only appear as a rare special in research + black market + industry worlds either as its IS or Clan version.

The result is that there is never a shortage of replacement parts for players who are desperate for them, and the special shielding types feel like a true find instead of just a high-cost upgrade you can do whenever.

[CptMoore]

I like everything you have written.

Additionally I would split rare stuff among factions if possible, based on what faction introduced a prototype first, e.g. compact by Free Worlds League, light by Lyran Commonwealth. (not really necessary, but a nice too to force the player to travel).

[Aliencreature]

LFE - Rare in Steiner space, common if liked by Steiner, extra rare if liked in Free Worlds or Draconis (they were given the tech by Blackwell)

Compact - Rare in Draconis, common if liked by Draconis (I think they and the Blakists used it first?)

Light Ferro - Rare in Free Worlds, common if liked by Free Worlds

Heavy Ferro - Rare in Steiner, common if liked by Steiner

Endo-Composite - Rare in Steiner, common if liked by Steiner

Stealth Armor - Rare in the Capellan Confederation, common if liked by the Capellan Confederation (and very rare in Steiner and Davion space since they stole it)

XXL - Can't find who introduced it, but since a lot of the tech is Free Worlds/Lyran/Draconis it might be best if they are more common in Davion space.

How does that sound? And they all have a small chance of appearing in black market + trade hubs everywhere.

[CptMoore]

sounds good, you certainly know more about the lore than me

Compact - Rare in Draconis, common if liked by Draconis (I think they and the Blakists used it first?)

yea you are right

[Aliencreature]

Found my Techmanual! Apparently Compact engines are Lyran as well, but they shared it with FedSuns and Draconis to help fight the Blakists.

[CptMoore]

So confusing, compact engines shouldnt help anyone 😂

[Aliencreature]

Supposedly they are more durable, but dying from engine crits compared to losing a CT must be so uncommon that they are pointless from a game perspective.

We could give them a bonus to justify the immense tonnage. XXL engines have a penalty to heat sinking because of their inadequate shielding, so Compacts could get a matching bonus to heat sinking instead. Alternatively, they could give a bonus to difficulty to hit because of their shielding, so they work well with ECM and/or stealth armor.

[CptMoore]

Bonus in heat dissipation makes sense, you pay more tonnage but get some back in form of heat sinks. Of course compact engines are required for that fat center torso cockpit right?

[Aliencreature]

No, the torso cockpit works like this according to Sarna:

Torso Cockpits weigh 4 tons and replace the standard Cockpit. Torso Cockpits occupy two spaces in the Center Torso, one for the cockpit and one sensor package. The head mounted Life Support systems are moved to the side torsos. This leaves four critical slots open in the 'Mech's head. The cramped conditions impose a 1 point penalty on all Piloting skill rolls. When the first sensor system is destroyed, add a 2 point penalty on all to-hit rolls. After the second sensor system is destroyed, impose a 4 point to-hit penalty. (If the destroyed sensor systems are both in the head, the 'Mech is effectively blinded and the penalty applies to Piloting skill rolls and physical attacks as well.) If all three sensor systems are destroyed, the 'Mech is completely blind and cannot make weapon attacks as well as suffering a 4 point penalty to Piloting skill rolls.

The proximity to the engine makes a MechWarrior's life difficult as well. The torso mounted life support systems are critical to the operation of the 'Mech. If one Life Support system is destroyed, the MechWarrior will take a point of damage each turn a Torso Cockpit equipped 'Mech is overheated by 1 to 14 points on the 'Mech heat scale. If the 'Mech is overheated by 15 points or more and a Life Support system is destroyed, the MechWarrior will take 2 points of damage.

But I suppose with a compact engine you could move the life support in the CT as well, making the mech very durable to anything but a CT destruction.

[CptMoore]

Ok, lets make a ticket for compact engine viability and another one for ct cockpits and movenour existing comments appropiatly.

[CptMoore]

I've implemented work order cost customization #85 , all installation and removal costs regarding engines, armor and structure can now be customized.

Additionally, costs can be made relative to chassis weight, e.g. Install TechCost = ChassisTonnage * 10.

we need someone to go through all components and set appropriate costs:

• costs to buy from store (and sell it)
• costs to install (relative to chassis tonnage if appropriate)
• costs to remove (relative to chassis tonnage if appropriate)

Don't forget that engines are more complicated, as we have several different parts that combined give the finished engine.

[CptMoore]

waiting for @LadyAlekto to finish this in RT so I can backport it here

[CptMoore]

this is just one of the backport tasks, no need to keep this open