Colors change permanently as soon as I open a RAW file

[Beep6581]

Originally reported on Google Code with ID 881

What is the problem?

What steps will reproduce the problem?
1. start with a directory that you never looked at
2. open (double-click) a picture - colors will be "bad" immediately!
3. if you think it is the profile, clear it. I was under the impression that should
revert just about EVERYTHING!
4. colors (even in browser) stay changed, they will never return to how they were in
step 1!

Click on the Preferences icon (top-right corner) > About > Version, and
paste all that here.
All versions I tried today, 3.0.0.6, 3.1.1.x, 4.0.0.x. Currently I got:
Branch: branch_3.0
Version: 3.0.0.6
Changeset: 2a21a041f9ae
Compiler: GCC 4.5.2
Processor: undefined
System: Linux
Bit depth: 64 bits
Gtkmm: V2.24.0
Build type: Debug
Build flags: -g -O2
Link flags: -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions
OpenMP support: ON
MMAP support: ON
Rawzor support: OFF

Operating system and architecture (e.g. winXP-32, ubuntu-10.10-64):
Ubuntu 11.04 natty

All files over 50kB excluding patches should be referred to with
links, please do not use this site's "Attach a file" feature because space
is limited. Use http://imgur.com/ for images and http://min.us/ for other
files.

Reported by olaf.gottschalk on 2011-07-31 13:36:53

[Beep6581]

Hi Olaf,
the raw files are opened read-only so they won't be changed by RT.
What you may experience is either the monitor profile that is applied or you are looking
at cached thumbnails. Try to clear the thumbnail cache in preferences and see if the
colors are reverted to the 'old' situation.

Jan Rinze.

Reported by janrinze on 2011-07-31 16:11:46

[Beep6581]

Hi Jan,
maybe I should try to express myself better. :)
When I initially start RT, the pictures in the preview look just perfect! Imagine a
series of 5 pictures taken in the same environment and they look good in the browser.
When I open one of them the colors change to a flaw, yellowish thing - not any good!
I have not figured out WHAT exactly makes the colors change, I expect the same algorithm
to render the preview pictures (the thumbs) from start than the one rendering the picture
without any changes from my side.
But then, not even can I not find the turn to dial to makes the opened picture look
like the other 4 in the series I haven't touched yet, I cannot get back so that the
thumb of this picture looks like it did before.

The raw converters I worked with before (RawShooter on Win) did NOT change the colors
like that.

Where can I find a way to open a pic like the thumb looks?

Olaf

Reported by olaf.gottschalk on 2011-08-01 05:29:45

[Beep6581]

Olaf, that's normal. When you haven't changed pictures settings, RT will just read the
internal (camera generated) thumbnail instead of the whole RAW for speed reasons. When
you start editing them, RT builds it's own thumb.
If you don't want that, you can set uncheck the file browser preference "internal thumb
if unedited" and have the RT thumb constantly.

Reported by oduis@hotmail.com on 2011-08-01 06:15:23

[Beep6581]

That explains why the picture changes and stays changed. (But that behavior is really
not like one would expect. If I revert all changes that I, as a user, can see (that
is: "clear profile"), I expect things to go back to start.

But - unfortunately that does not explain why my pictures look so ugly as soon as RT
touches them. I would really like to use this raw converter, it looks like a fine software
- but if right at the start things go strange and I cannot find a way to even let my
picture look like the cameras internally generated thumb (for me the colors are "real"
there!) - how can I use it?
What's the trick, what should I do?

I would like to start from the cameras internal values and change things from there.
Even when I select white balance to be "Camera", things look totally different than
on the camera! :-(( The changes that screw my picture must be something else than WB....

Reported by olaf.gottschalk on 2011-08-01 06:21:20

[Beep6581]

Don't know, might be camera depended. Try one of the profiles (see manual), there are
some profiles that configure all the tools to a certain look that might give you a
starting point.

Reported by oduis@hotmail.com on 2011-08-01 06:51:42

[Beep6581]

Hmm. It's an EOS 350d.
I tried all profiles already, none looks like a "normal" picture. Either they are yellowish
or too fancy already (like the Punchy ones). Nice, but nothing for "normal" pictures...
*sigh*

Reported by olaf.gottschalk on 2011-08-01 06:57:03

[Beep6581]

Olaf, 

The 1-st time thumbnail shows jpg image preview embedded into the RAW file by the camera.
The look of that thumbnail is based on special in-camera recipe. THis recipe can also
be customized by the user using in-camera settings. For example, you can increase saturation
and contrast. This kind of information can only be used by the manufacturer's software,
and is specific to a camera.

When you open raw file the RT's "default" profile is assigned to it in RT.
When you clear a profile a RT's "neutral" profile is assigned to it in RT.

RT is provided with a number of profile presents. Please try all of these profiles.
It is Possible that Natural-1 or Natural-2 may closely resemble you rin-camera settings.
It is, however impossible for RT to have a UNIVERSAL "default" profile which would
adapt for all cameras, simulating in-camera processing look.

If none of the given presets work to your needs exactly, you can try the following:
- Make a copy of the raw file and put it next to the original.
- Browse to these raw files in RT and view both thumbnails side-by-side.
- Do not click on the copied raw thumbnail - this will be your reference image, showing
camera-embedded preview.
- Apply the most suitable preset profile to the original raw file.
- fine-tune development parameters for the original raw so that it would closely resemble
the camera preview.
- Double-click on the original raw file. it will open in RT.
- Click save profile button and give that profile name "My-CAMERANAME-Favorite-01.pp3"
- Open preferences/image processing and select "My-CAMERANAME-Favorite-01.pp3" to be
the default profile for raw images.

Now that you have your custom profile saved, you can apply it to any other raw image.
Additionally, this profile will be used by default for all your raw files.

You may need to go through this process a couple of times to fine-tune your custom
profile, so that it would better suit most of your raw files.

Hope this helps,

Michael

Reported by michaelezra000 on 2011-08-01 10:53:50

[Beep6581]

While building the RT's preset profiles, I noticed that in some cases Auto Levels function
cases strange appearance of the images, especially when combined with Highlight recovery.
Underexposed images are brightened but in some cases can look very flat with over-saturated
highlights. Please try the default, Natural-1 and Natural-2 profiles and set Exposure
and Black to 0 after applying each of them.

Reported by michaelezra000 on 2011-08-01 11:06:16

[Beep6581]

@Olaf: I'm really curious which kind of camera you use. Apparently the neutral profile
a very far from the embedded jpeg. That suggest the camera either has some extreme
settings for post processing into jpeg or the raw file conversion is not optimal for
your camera (there are color profiles for cameras in dcraw)

Reported by janrinze on 2011-08-10 18:54:30

[Beep6581]

I got a Canon EOS 350d (I think it's a Rebel XT). I used Rawshooter on Windows and I
never encountered the problem that Rawshooter's first "guess" in processing was so
much different than the internal thumb/jpg (cause sometimes I had both stored directly).
That's why I did never think about what's really happening and that whatever a raw
converter shows must be something different than the camera's jpg...

What is dcraw?

Reported by olaf.gottschalk on 2011-08-10 21:34:00

[Beep6581]

dcraw is by Dave Coffin http://www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/ which is a program to
convert raw files. Google is quite useful if your looking for things like dcraw.
RT does not guess anything but renders the raw file according to a profile.
Apparently if colors are off then it may be something with white balance or a color
profile for your camera that does not match your chosen default on your camera.

Reported by janrinze on 2011-08-10 21:53:50

[Beep6581]

Reported by ffsup2@yahoo.it on 2011-11-10 09:02:45

• Status changed: Invalid

[Beep6581]

A shame this issue is just stamped "invalid". Pah!
Have to find a better alternative than Rawtherapee... :(

Reported by olaf.gottschalk on 2011-11-10 09:11:16

[Beep6581]

Olaf upload one of your problematic raw files to www.minus.com along with a jpeg screenshot
of what the problem is, then the devs have something to go by. They can't guess what
the problem is and then fix a guess.

Reported by entertheyoni on 2011-11-10 15:43:10

• Labels added: Camera-350d, Component-Docs

[Beep6581]

Reported by entertheyoni on 2011-11-10 15:43:31

• Labels added: Component-Quality
• Labels removed: Component-Docs

[Beep6581]

i am trying this RT tool with files taken by my new Canon S100.  but when i try to adjust
the image (and i assume this is when RT regenerate the thumbnail), the RAW image instantly
looks like a negative.

i tried apply all the profiles that come with this version of RT but still does not
even get close.  any suggestion how to resolve this will be welcome.

thanks!

Reported by koofactor on 2011-12-30 08:16:57

[Beep6581]

The Canon Powershot S100 is very new and is not supported yet by RT 4.0.6
However the patch is there, it will be supported in the next version.
Till then you can convert your RAWs to DNG (Adobe DNG Converter) and it should work
with RT:
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=106&platform=Windows
(also gives you other advantages like lossless compression)

Reported by oduis@hotmail.com on 2011-12-30 08:36:45

[Beep6581]

Is there any solution to this issue? I can confirm the same issue reported by olaf with
my canon camera. The raw opens with a different yellowish cast than whats embeded in
the cr2 to start with. I dont face this problem with dark table on linux. I am guessing
the issue is with dcraw since darktable does not use that.

Reported by adrian.gonsalves on 2012-04-18 04:41:15

[Beep6581]

i think the issue is more prominent with florescent or tungsten lighting. My camera
is a 60D.

Reported by adrian.gonsalves on 2012-04-18 04:43:46

[Beep6581]

RT supports most current standard sensors that DCRAW supports. And you always got (espc.
for older or exotic cameras) the option to convert the RAW to DNG, which works nicely
with RT.
If you got problems with modern cameras, open a new bug, because this thread is not
about camera support. And please be sure to add a sample RAW file for repro, as screenshots
are pretty useless for us.

Reported by oduis@hotmail.com on 2012-04-18 05:35:28

[Beep6581]

Most likely a difference in the color profile.  If darktable works better for you but
you want the capabilities of RT, you might try grabbing the camera profile from darktable
and installing it in RT.

Reported by ejm.60657 on 2012-04-18 12:08:44