plan for building the dongle interface

[hcrowl]

What hardware do we need to build the part of the feed between the LNA and the Dongle? There is an amplifier (on order), power injector (in hand), DC power supply (in hand), and filter (in hand). However, how do we connect these together? What wires do we need? Do we need to make wires?

[acencini]

one idea to chew on:

find out the specifics of the barrel connector for the DC supply, as well as the connector for the filter, and we could build a small extremely simple board and enclosure to pass the power to the filter.

e.g. https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10811 (this is probably not the right size but you get the idea) and http://www.newark.com/amphenol-connex/132136/rf-coaxial-sma-jack-r-a-50-ohm/dp/99H5025

[theDarkLard]

Alright so here's the deal. Get comfy because this is going to be a long post. In describing the back end of the hardware, I will be going from the out of the feed all the way to the in of the dongle for chronology's sake. SO starting with the connection between the feed and the inline amp. We will need LMR-240 cable, with a SMA-M connector on one end for the feed, and F-type coax plug connector on the other for the inline amp. I'm thinking that we won't have the connection between the cable and inline amp until it is comfortably inside Dickinson, preferably near wherever we will be controlling the telescope from. This will be important in making another decision concerning using another cable type called RG-6 quad shield cable, but more on that in a bit. The inline amp can conceivably be plugged directly into the power injector with F coax plug to F coax plug adapter. As @acencini has suggested, I think we will need to fashion a small board for the purpose of adapting the dc barrel plug on the wall wart to the F coax jack on the power injector. The dimensions of the plug on our wall wart are a 5 mm jack and a 2.1 mm center hole. The other connector on the board must be a F coax plug connector. This should allow us to pass power from the wall wart into the power injector. And here is where the issue of using the RG-6 quad cable comes up. The RG-6 cable has a higher impedance value of 75 ohms (vs. the LMR's 50 ohms) in order to deal with the added power into the circuit, so if we were to use it, it would run from the out of the power injector to the bandpass filter, and from the bandpass filter to the dongle. However, given the proximity of all these components (they will be on the inside end close together), we could also use direct adapters to connect them all, and forgo using the RG-6 all together. Now, i'm no electrical engineer so I'm not really sure if using direct adapters vs the cable will create problems or not, so that's why I'm throwing the idea out there. Regardless of whether or not we use the cable, we will need an F coax plug connector for the out of the power injector to a SMA-M connector to the in of the BPF. We will then need an SMA-F connector for the out of the BPF and an SMB-M connector going into the dongle. And that should just about wrap it up. @hcrowl @acencini what do you guys think?

[acencini]

if you can find the right parts for through-hole, we should order them and fashion an adapter - i am ok with making a nice board/adapter for the power end of things. we'll also need a small piece of circuit board for this as well (i have plenty of wire). so this will involve measuring and cutting a piece of breadboard to the right size.

[theDarkLard]

Alright so after researching available connector types for each cable type, I found that we do in fact need both cable types. Here is the parts list.

BACK END PARTS LIST

Wall Wart – Power Injector Adapter -DC Barrel Jack Adapter (same one @acencini linked above) -Breadboard (small) -Coax F connector plug http://www.newark.com/te-connectivity-amp/5415406-2/rf-coaxial-f-plug-r-a-50-ohm-solder/dp/96M0679?categoryId=800000006561 -- although this is what we want, there is no screw element for screwing this end of the adapter on to the power injector, so we might want to go with: -BNC jack connector (because we have many BNC jack to F-coax plug adapters on hand) http://www.newark.com/te-connectivity-raychem/rbd-50-m-01/rf-coaxial-bnc-plug-r-a-50-ohm/dp/71J0288

• @acencini could you check if this one would be compatible with a breadboard?

B/T LNA & LINE AMP

• LMR-240 cable
• SMA-M connector for coax http://www.newark.com/te-connectivity-amp/1408442-1/rf-coaxial-sma-plug-straight-crimp/dp/96M0641?categoryId=800000006561
• F-type coax plug connector for coax cable http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=515369&eventGroup=4&eventPage=1

B/T LINE AMP & POWER INJECTOR

• RG-6 quad shield cable
• Two (2) f coax plug connectors http://www.cablewholesale.com/products/coaxial-cable/f-type-connectors/product-asf-20038.php -OR-
• F coax plug to F coax plug adaptor http://www.newark.com/multicomp-formerly-from-spc/spc15393/rf-coaxial-adapter-f-plug-f-plug/dp/79K4976 -- this is a viable option but it might create issues if the inline amp and our dc barrel- f coax adapter are crowding each other at the power injector connection

B/T POWER INJECTOR & BPF

• RG-6 quad shield cable
• Two (2) F-type coax plug connector for coax cable (same connector for line amp to power injector)
• One F coax jack to SMA-M adapter http://www.amazon.com/Male-Female-Coaxial-Connector-Adapter/dp/B00BXT9MS8

B/T BPF & DONGLE

• RG-6 quad cable
• Two (2) F-type coax plug connector for coax cable (same connector for line amp to power injector) – this would make a total of six of these connectors
• One sma jack to F coax jack adapter http://www.ebay.com/itm/F-Female-Jack-to-SMA-Female-Jack-center-Straight-RF-Coax-Connector-Adapter-/170755335199
• One F coax jack to SMB plug adapter http://www.xm-radio-satellite.com/sirius_xm_radio_smb_rg-6_adapter_connector.aspx

[theDarkLard]

Will throw up a rough schematic tomorrow when I can wrangle somebody to show me how to post pictures

[wbuchanan28]

I can show you how to do pictures tomorrow

On Saturday, March 29, 2014, theDarkLard notifications@github.com wrote:

Will throw up a rough schematic tomorrow when I can wrangle somebody to show me how to post pictures

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/BenningtonCS/Telescope-2014/issues/65#issuecomment-39015190 .

[theDarkLard]

thanks @wbuchanan28 !

[hcrowl]

A question for @theDarkLard:

Could we just get a bunch of RT-6 Quad Shield Cable (i.e. Coax) and some Female plug adapters from Home Depot? It seems to me that most of the connections (with the exception of the Wall-wart adapter and the final step between the BPF and the dongle) are just coax connections. Am I missing something?

EDIT: I guess what I'm really asking is whether all the SMA adapter things are necessary.

EDIT 2: And is "SMA" the cable that has "BNC" connectors at the end?

EDIT 3:

[theDarkLard]

@hcrowl For the f-type coax connectors you could absolutely get them at home depot along with the cable. However, I found that SMA cable connectors are not made for RG-6 cable size so that's why I threw up all those extra adapters. F-type coax, SMA, and BNC are all different types of connectors. F-type and SMA are super similar in that SMA is pretty much just a smaller version of F type. BNC is its own thing entirely with those lock-in prongs. I can show you the difference between them all on monday since we have on hand examples. All this RF equipment minutiae does get a little crazy...

[hcrowl]

OK. I know about BNC, but your description of F-type coax and SMA is awesomely helpful. So, some (hopefully) more coherent questions:

Out of the LNA is BNC, right? Into and out of the the line amp is f-type coax or SMA? From what you've said above, I assume that in and out of the power inserter is f-type coax, right? In and out of the BPF is SMA, right? Finally, we have an adapter into the dongle that takes BNC. Presumably we need to get BNC eventually coming out of the BPF in order to feed into the dongle, right? Is the difference between RG-6 and LMR-240 just the impedance? Can/should we use LMR-240 for all of these connections?

[hcrowl]

OK. Based on writing that previous post, below is, I THINK, the chain of connectors/cables/modules. @theDarkLard, let me know if/where I'm wrong.

LNA -> BNC Female Plug -> LMR-240 cable -> F-type Coax Plug -> Power Injector Module -> F-type Coax Plug -> LMR-240 cable -> SMA-M Plug -> Bandpass Filter -> SMA-M Plug -> LMR-240 cable -> BNC Plug (Male) -> Dongle Adapter -> Dongle

(Note: I've just left the power injector/wall wart as a single module here)

[theDarkLard]

Out of the LNA is SMA Into and out of the line amp is f-type In and out of the power inserter is indeed f-type In and out of BPF is SMA We do have that adapter and we could definitely go that route, the way I sketched it out above is a little different with an f-type connector coming out of the cable and then having an f jack to SMB (another connector type the dongle takes) plug adapter to go into the dongle. I think the two cables may have different physical sizes (hence some connectors being available for some cable types but not all types) but I'm not sure because I haven't seen them in real life. Unfortunately the entire cable diameter is a tough spec to find and I wouldn't want to take a chance on my limited knowledge. Maybe David Norman has some experience and can give us some insight?

Also just so it's not confusing, when I say plug I am referring to a male connection, and when I say jack I am referring to a female connection.

So the chain goes like this (where the connectors listed are crimped onto the cables, and screwed into the modules):

LNA -> SMA Plug -> LMR-240 cable -> F-type Coax Plug -> Line Amp -> F type plug -> LMR-240 -> F type plug -> Power Injector -> F-type Coax Plug -> RG-6 -> F type plug -> F type jack to SMA-M adapter -> Bandpass Filter -> SMA-F to to F type jack adapter -> F type plug -> RG-6 -> F type plug -> F type jack to SMB plug adapter -> Dongle

*side note: SMA connectors are made for LMR but not RG-6

[theDarkLard]

Schematic! Also I love how we are all posting memes now

[theDarkLard]

SO new chain/parts list:

LNA --> SMA-M plug connector --> LMR 400 --> F type plug connector --> line amp --> F type plug connector --> RG-6 --> F type plug connector --> Power injector --> f type plug to BNC F adapter --> BNC m to BNC M patch cable --> BNC F to SMA M adapter --> bandpass filter --> SMA F to BNC F adapter --> BNC M to BNC M patch cable --> BNC F to SMB plug adapter --> dongle

And just a reminder the things we need for the dc barrel plug to f type coax plug adapter board: Wall Wart – Power Injector Adapter -DC Barrel Jack Adapter (same one @acencini linked above) -Breadboard (small) -Coax F connector plug http://www.newark.com/te-connectivity-amp/5415406-2/rf-coaxial-f-plug-r-a-50-ohm-solder/dp/96M0679?categoryId=800000006561

[hcrowl]

Here are all the parts we've actually ordered to make this work:

SMA-M plug connector: http://www.rfparts.com/132298.html LMR 400: http://www.amateurradiosupplies.com/product-p/9997.htm F type plug connector: http://www.rfparts.com/222166.html line amp: http://www.cablesatellitesupply.com/Blonder-Tongue-LA-922-20-In-Line-Amplifier-p/la-922-20.htm f type plug to BNC F adapter: http://www.amazon.com/Vanco-VAD12X-Female-Jack-Male/dp/B004ULQITW BNC m to BNC M patch cable: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-RF/115101-05-0600/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMufBZYvsU%2fbe7h%252blh0W7%252bSrfm6j2rcs0Fc%3d f type plug to BNC F adapter: http://www.amazon.com/Vanco-VAD12X-Female-Jack-Male/dp/B004ULQITW Power injector: http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Vision-CVT-PI-Power-Injector/dp/B0002M5OZW/ f type plug to BNC F adapter: http://www.amazon.com/Vanco-VAD12X-Female-Jack-Male/dp/B004ULQITW BNC m to BNC M patch cable: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-RF/115101-05-0600/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMufBZYvsU%2fbe7h%252blh0W7%252bSrfm6j2rcs0Fc%3d BNC F to SMA M adapter: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vitelec-Emerson-Connectivity-Solutions/VA506/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuXmr61qKalXWYOEg%2f9fGeVHlielQDF4RA%3d bandpass filter: http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/VBF-1445+.pdf SMA F to BNC F adapter: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/AIM-Cambridge-Emerson-Connectivity-Solutions/29-3835/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuXmr61qKalXSZtX9L8zK8oetnAFUKy5IE%3d BNC M to BNC M patch cable: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-RF/115101-05-0600/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMufBZYvsU%2fbe7h%252blh0W7%252bSrfm6j2rcs0Fc%3d BNC F to SMB plug adapter: http://www.amazon.com/ST-Radar-Female-Straight-Adapter/dp/B00HG09Q9S/

Also, the following parts to power the power injector:

A/C-to-D/C power supply: http://www.amazon.com/E-Flite-12VDC-1-5-Power-Supply/dp/B000BYNYJE/ Breadboard: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/8022/V2018-ND/565947 DC Jack: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PJ-102B/CP-102B-ND/281307 F-type plug: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/866B509/991-1053-ND/2355591

[acencini]

for the power injector, we should also concoct a testing protocol that isolates the newly constructed breadboard setup from the rest of the componentry, such that we can ensure it's pushing the right power consistently, and is not noisy or hazardous. nothing major, but since we are baking our own here we should make sure we are careful.

On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 11:26 AM, hcrowl notifications@github.com wrote:

Here are all the parts we've actually ordered to make this work:

SMA-M plug connector: http://www.rfparts.com/132298.html LMR 400: http://www.amateurradiosupplies.com/product-p/9997.htm F type plug connector: http://www.rfparts.com/222166.html line amp: http://www.cablesatellitesupply.com/Blonder-Tongue-LA-922-20-In-Line-Amplifier-p/la-922-20.htm f type plug to BNC F adapter: http://www.amazon.com/Vanco-VAD12X-Female-Jack-Male/dp/B004ULQITW BNC m to BNC M patch cable: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-RF/115101-05-0600/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMufBZYvsU%2fbe7h%252blh0W7%252bSrfm6j2rcs0Fc%3d f type plug to BNC F adapter: http://www.amazon.com/Vanco-VAD12X-Female-Jack-Male/dp/B004ULQITW Power injector: http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Vision-CVT-PI-Power-Injector/dp/B0002M5OZW/ f type plug to BNC F adapter: http://www.amazon.com/Vanco-VAD12X-Female-Jack-Male/dp/B004ULQITW BNC m to BNC M patch cable: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-RF/115101-05-0600/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMufBZYvsU%2fbe7h%252blh0W7%252bSrfm6j2rcs0Fc%3d BNC F to SMA M adapter: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vitelec-Emerson-Connectivity-Solutions/VA506/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuXmr61qKalXWYOEg%2f9fGeVHlielQDF4RA%3d bandpass filter: http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/VBF-1445+.pdf SMA F to BNC F adapter: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/AIM-Cambridge-Emerson-Connectivity-Solutions/29-3835/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuXmr61qKalXSZtX9L8zK8oetnAFUKy5IE%3d BNC M to BNC M patch cable: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-RF/115101-05-0600/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMufBZYvsU%2fbe7h%252blh0W7%252bSrfm6j2rcs0Fc%3d BNC F to SMB plug adapter: http://www.amazon.com/ST-Radar-Female-Straight-Adapter/dp/B00HG09Q9S/

Also, the following parts to power the power injector:

A/C-to-D/C power supply: http://www.amazon.com/E-Flite-12VDC-1-5-Power-Supply/dp/B000BYNYJE/ Breadboard: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/8022/V2018-ND/565947 DC Jack: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PJ-102B/CP-102B-ND/281307 F-type plug: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/866B509/991-1053-ND/2355591

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/BenningtonCS/Telescope-2014/issues/65#issuecomment-39977454 .

[acencini]

moving to m6 for triage

[edaniszewski]

Closing, leaving a series of nitpicky issues in its wake.

[edaniszewski]

This is stuff that should make it into the wiki.

[edaniszewski]