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BigAndini / ers

Event Registration System
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14 days Widerrufsrecht #109

Open smadamit opened 9 years ago

smadamit commented 9 years ago

see:

We have to do a correct: "Widerrufsbelehrung". And as far as I understand this is from now equal for the whole EU.

I think this issue is just texting in the emails and does not involve the implementation of the ERS, am I right?

BigAndini commented 9 years ago

I think there will be a reason for having a refund function at least in the admin panel. I don't think that we need this function in the frontend at all. With this function we can handle the refunds of the 14 day rule aswell.

smadamit commented 9 years ago

the deadline expands if the last day of the deadline is not a working day! So the deadline always ends with a working day.

smadamit commented 9 years ago

decision: Since all tickets we are selling in the ers this year are tickets to events with a fixed date (gala, week ticket, day ticket) the 14-days-Widerrufsrecht is not applicable. See: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/returning-unwanted-goods/index_en.htm -> Certain products excluded: "plane and train tickets as well as concert tickets and hotel bookings for specific dates"

For the future we have to consider this law. If we are selling tshirts. And this is a relative complicate issue. We have to give the purchaser a Widerrufsbelehrung and the text change depending on the law of the country...

So I put it to milestone:aferEJC

jackcaveman commented 9 years ago

Just put the refund option in the backend. It's not that much work and good to have a human component in the loop. You can suggest they sell their ticket to someone else for example, to keep the prereg numbers up.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 5:22 PM, smadamit notifications@github.com wrote:

decision: Since all tickets we are selling in the ers this year are tickets to events with a fixed date (gala, week ticket, day ticket) the 14-days-Widerrufsrecht is not applicable. See: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/returning-unwanted-goods/index_en.htm -> Certain products excluded: "plane and train tickets as well as concert tickets and hotel bookings for specific dates"

For the future we have to consider this law. If we are selling tshirts. And this is a relative complicate issue. We have to give the purchaser a Widerrufsbelehrung and the text change depending on the law of the country...

So I put it to milestone:aferEJC

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/inbaz/ers/issues/109#issuecomment-81773547.

BigAndini commented 9 years ago

So if it's not complicated, could you just explain the workflow how the refund/move to another purchaser is working? If we have this info it's much easier to just write this feature.

jackcaveman commented 9 years ago

With both options it would be nice to have a "log" with the order so you can see what happened. I did not experience any discussions with wrongly changed tickets last year, so the log feature is low priority.

Refund 1) Purchaser: sends and email to prereg@eja.net with a request to refund. 2) preregco: Email back with suggestion that they try to sell their tickets to other jugglers. If sill refund. 3) preregco: Verify identity, ask for bank account for example. 4) Preregco: Set orders status to "to be refunded" 5) Treasurer: refunds the money to either bank account or directly bank to credit card 6) Treasurer: sets order status to "refunded" 7) ERS: Email confirmation of refund to purchaser

Transfer ticket 1) Purchaser: emails prereg@eja.net with request to transfer a ticket. 2) preregco: Ask which ticket. and Name, Birthday, email, Nationality of the new participant (e.g. the add Person form). 3) preregco: Add the person to the ticket. 4) ERS: Send notification email to old participant 5) ERS: Send new E-ticket to new participant and purchaser

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 9:45 PM, inbaz notifications@github.com wrote:

So if it's not complicated, could you just explain the workflow how the refund/move to another purchaser is working? If we have this info it's much easier to just write this feature.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/inbaz/ers/issues/109#issuecomment-81927669.

smadamit commented 9 years ago

for refund in the backend I have opened a new issue: #198

This issue is about 14 days Widerrufsrecht which is a question of law.

smadamit commented 9 years ago

Some results of my investigations. No guarantee... To get a solid process from the justice point of view you need a specialized lawyer.

general: which law is binding

The law of the right to do a revocation within 14 days is harmonized within the EU. But there are still country depending issues. For example the explicit text of the "wirksame Widerrufsbelehrung" (see below).

General issue, also for other rules and law: Which law is binding: country of the EJC, country of the EJA or country of the purchaser? My impression, if it is a shop-system for end-customer (not for companies) you have to consider the rules of consumer protection of the country of the costumer. And even more. If the rules of the EJC country are better for the customer, he is able to refer to the EJC-country rules.

In the end we would also need the advice of a tax consultant! EJA vs EJC, etc. VAT, invoices, ...

source:

EJC-tickets are excluded from this rule

Certain products excluded: Since the EJC-tickets have an explicit date they are excluded from this issue. But t-shirts, etc. have to be considered!

source:

14 days respite

Respite (period of time) is 14 days. If the last day of the period is a holiday or Sunday the period is extended to the next working day.

The 14 days respite starts with:

1) delivery of the goods.

2) the purchaser have to get an effective information about his right of revocation ("wirksame Widerrufsbelehrung"). He also have to get a prototype form of revocation ("Muster-Formular für Widerruf"). Both should be done by the ERS together with the legal terms.

source: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widerrufsrecht

risks

In the end it's a question of risks and costs. I guess the risks are low and the costs to implement it solid with a lawyer are very high. So I would do it as good as possible. That's it.

And the benefit to sell t-shirts during the prereg is much higher than the risk for not applying the correct rules depending the 14-days...

BigAndini commented 8 years ago

I let this ticket open but since we find a solution with every participant at in special cases it's no problem to give a ticket back there is no need to have this issue solved that strict. At the moment this is a job that's done by the prereg-coordinator.