Discussion

@pat: Chapter 5 compared the gold rushes of California and NSW and chapter 6 was about the Eureka Stockade and associated politics.

@mcgain: Thought it was an interesting, alternative historical take. The story seems different from what was taught at school.

@john.telfer: Found it quite interesting that these chapters didn't focus on the romance of the birth of the union movement, the 8hr day, and independence but on the economic reasons that lead to the pressure point. Loved that it was about bureaucratic incompetence, abuses of power, and goldfield tariffs.

@lachlanhardy: Did everyone else find Australian history was taught as a chronological recitation of things that happened rather than a conversation about the motives, pressures, and incentives? @pat: Doesn't believe it was even taught that deeply. @john.telfer: A school trip to Sovereign Hill isn't enough? 😉

@lachlanhardy: Asks @mcgain how this differs from what he learnt at school but also studying history at uni. @mcgain: As @john.telfer stated, it's the romance. The story is generally told with a focus on the comradery and organisation of the Eureka Stockade. They try to build an Australian mythology while this book is a cold and unromantic look at the subject. This isn't to say that both can't be accurate but the perspectives are very different. @elle: Did not learn Australian history but Israeli history and they have the same characteristics; there is an agenda to create patriotism. @pat: While the characterisation isn't unfair, the book isn't completely unromantic. There is a lot of focus on Australia leading the world and hometown pride for Melbourne. @mcgain: Understanding is that the early settlers really struggled with crops but that is heavily glossed over.

@pat: Found it surprising that Australia was many decades ahead of Britain in the introduction of suffrage for all men. @mcgain: Although, Australia didn't give Indigenous men the right to vote until the 1970s. We were ahead of the world in many ways... with a footnote. @pat: "If you ignore the racism...".

@pat: One thing that is curious is the representation of our societal values and how we treat politicians, power, and egalitarianism. @lachlanhardy: Is it just the nature of having to draw an argument across 250 years of Colonisation? Do nations really have these kinds of patterns? (e.g. when we allow migrants, good things happen and, when we close the borders, bad things happen). "Past performance is no guarantee of future results". @mcgain: Unsure that we have enough data points yet but we may be able to answer that question at the end of the book.

@mcgain: Has been shocked at feelings of pride for Australia. Despite the rose-coloured glassed and the knowledge that our story will deteriorate in the following chapters, Australia was forward-thinking on matters of unionism and suffrage and was the richest country in the world.

There is general discussion about the value of GDP and the belief that GDP is not great as a measure of the overall performance of a nation.

@mcgain: If GDP per capita is a bad way of measuring the greatness of a nation, then a lot of the point of this book is mute, isn't it? @hashnotadam: The book doesn't seem to touch on factors like happiness and seems to push GDP for GDP's sake. @pat: It's fair to say the book is GDP focused but, having seen him speak, that doesn't seem to be the belief of the author. @saramic: It could be used as a case against people who are anti-immigration. @pat: Although this assumes a willingness to have a change of mind which not enough people have.

Blackmill / book-club

Australia's Second Chance: Chapters 5 & 6 #131

Discussion