Stats for each Encounter of Raids

[Nitaraku]

@vthornheart-bng It's impossible to build up raid player ratings without any information about boss damage and other stats. Kills are not enough to rate anyone. Can you please add the Final Stats of each finished Encounter? As addition, maybe we could get the encounter stats from the wipe screen of all tries?

Is it possible to contact you without opening issues here?

[floatingatoll]

Do you know of any good examples of ‘raid player ratings’ from D1 that could be used to better understand what the result looks like?

On Dec 25, 2017, at 18:17, Nitaraku notifications@github.com wrote:

@vthornheart-bng It's impossible to build up raid player ratings without any information about boss damage and other stats. Kills are not enough to rate anyone. Can you please add the Final Stats of each finished Encounter? As addition, maybe we could get the encounter stats from the wipe screen of all tries?

Is it possible to contact you without opening issues here?

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

[soren42]

So, one of the best examples is at https://raid.report/ — but, we’d like to have more granular information to create something like an ELO score that’s used on the PvP side.

[Nitaraku]

@floatingatoll At the moment 'raid player ratings' doesn't exist.

@soren42 yes, we want to build an Elo rating system for raids, but without more stats it's impossible.

[Adnan-Oezsarigoel]

Stats about the Encounter in Raids are long overdue. It is nice to see, what raid.report shows us about our kills. But how was my damage at the boss or how many mines have I destroyed? And how can I improve my gameplay? We strongly need a rating system for raids.

[Adnan-Oezsarigoel]

@soren42 An ELO Score for Raids would be great. Nice idea!!!

[soren42]

Thank you! I was actually working on an algorithm and website to parallel trials.report, then I saw raid.report, and realised they had the same vision and beat me to the punch. 🙂 I’m sure they’d love to have some method of rating raid skill beyond completions. Boss damage, cleared encounters, etc. Anything that would add more granular detail would be much appreciated!

Happy Holidays everyone!

On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 21:58, Adnan Özsarigöl notifications@github.com wrote:

@soren42 https://github.com/soren42 An ELO Score for Raids would be great. Nice idea!!!

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned.

[vthornheart-bng]

Happy holidays! Just a heads up Soren, your reply had your phone number and some other info embedded in it - I removed it, but I wasn't aware of it being there until just now. Hopefully it won't be put to any bad use by external entities, but just in case I wanted to give you a heads up.

[Adnan-Oezsarigoel]

@vthornheart-bng You have forgot to delete it on his first post. There is still his info.

[vthornheart-bng]

Whoops, yep!

The ability to reply to these via email seems to be both a convenient feature and a curse.

[Nitaraku]

@vthornheart-bng can you please reply to my initial post?

[vthornheart-bng]

Greetings! Ah, sorry about neglecting to reply to you earlier!

Per-encounter stats would be fantastic - unfortunately, we're not set up to be able to return that information at this time. However, I will add it to the long term wish list. We'd need some more significant changes to stats in order to be able to return that kind of data.

Definitely a bummer, but at least this puts it on our radar so that in subsequent [theoretical] future versions of Destiny we'll know that it is something people desire!

[soren42]

Thanks for the heads-up, BTW. I didn't even think about it as I just replied from my email on mobile, so my .sig file was appended. Thanks for looking out & happy new year!

[vthornheart-bng]

No prob! It's happened to me too!

[th12eat]

@vthornheart-bng any chance we get an update on where this feature is? I would say (relative to the API development) this feature should be a top priority. It is really frustrating to see what went right or wrong and not be able to see the damage done (to boss, adds, total, etc.) in-game, but, I had hoped we could at least have a way to see it externally.

I appreciate you all putting it on your wishlist but I'm kinda surprised its not had any attention since.

Personal application: a Discord bot I'm working on to show encounter recaps by request and encounter completions automagically in a channel. Kills don't mean jack if your specific role in the encounter reduces your kill count, KDA can be abused by intentional wipes etc., sure damage can be conflated but it really will help reduce the ambiguity of performance with less speculation.

[vthornheart-bng]

Unfortunately my last update still holds true:

"Per-encounter stats would be fantastic - unfortunately, we're not set up to be able to return that information at this time. However, I will add it to the long term wish list. We'd need some more significant changes to stats in order to be able to return that kind of data."

The scale of work that needs to be done to allow for this data to be returned and accurate was beyond what any of our teams had time to begin work on for Forsaken. I don't feel like it's likely to see this feature anytime soon with the amount of work across the studio that would be required to make it possible - but the folks in charge of making those kinds of decisions have been informed about the desire for this feature, so hopefully if there's ever major work that we could piggyback this on (for example, a rewrite of the underlying Stats system itself) then this might come back into play.

[th12eat]

I know stating how much the community, or myself, desire this feature won't magically make this type of development go faster... and, as a Software Engineer for a major global company, I completely understand the hurdles you're speaking of ("can't we just make it right the first time?" /s)... but I do think it may be important to expose how much a feature like this needs attention.

At the same time, I do value accuracy and have seen the net code cause some spaghetti moments involving damage (ie a Void Room projection "slinky" timer issue where the client think's we've succeeded but the server disagrees) and think that simply showing the damage as the client see's it may cause rise for even more confusion--as I'm sure you're eluding to.

If you polled this feature to the community a la "Do you think 'Damage Dealt to Boss' is necessary information in post-encounter summaries. Choose: Strongly Agree, Agree, Neutral, Disagree, Strongly Disagree" I think you'll get a familiar fervor to my comment.

Keep at it, love the game. I'll check in every once in a while on this issue (If I comment here earlier than 6 months from the last time--I need to rethink my life choices). Cheers.

[floatingatoll]

For the record, I fervently wish against this sort of thing in general, because a ranking based on boss damage would penalize players for clearing adds and enable exclusionary behaviors on LFG services (“must have 1mil average boss damage and gjallahorn”).

While I respect that your community believes this is a good idea, I don’t think that can be safely generalized into a statement about all Destiny 2 players. “you'll get a familiar fervor to my comment” is not necessarily true.

On Jul 16, 2018, at 12:36, Thomas Reddick notifications@github.com wrote:

I know stating how much the community, or myself, desire this feature won't magically make this type of development go faster... and, as a Software Engineer for a major global company, I completely understand the hurdles you're speaking of ("can't we just make it right the first time?" /s)... but I do think it may be important to expose how much a feature like this needs attention.

At the same time, I do value accuracy and have seen the net code cause some spaghetti moments involving damage (ie a Void Room projection "slinky" timer issue where the client think's we've succeeded but the server disagrees) and think that simply showing the damage as the client see's it may cause rise for even more confusion--as I'm sure you're eluding to.

If you polled this feature to the community a la "Do you think 'Damage Dealt to Boss' is necessary information in post-encounter summaries. Choose: Strongly Agree, Agree, Neutral, Disagree, Strongly Disagree" you'll get a familiar fervor to my comment.

Keep at it, love the game. I'll check in every once in a while on this issue (If I comment here earlier than 6 months from the last time--I need to rethink my life choices). Cheers.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

[th12eat]

@floatingatoll I did not say anything about ranking. I raid with my clan and sometimes we don't know exactly what went wrong on an individual run. This isn't with an intent to isolate and exclude someone over their performance, its to address what went wrong and, as a team, fix/improve it.

For example, I'd like to see if that guy who uses his D.A.R.C.I on Calus is actually doing more damage than my Sleeper (with variance for Supers etc.) as I figured trying to land head shots with that weapon on that encounter would be too difficult to truly outshine it.

The LFG community that you're outlining will always have something to be exclusive about. Those posts won't magically increase when adding damage--especially when, like you said, it isn't even logical. You will put up more/less damage as certain roles of an encounter...

I did not mean “you'll get a familiar fervor to my comment” as fact--that is why it is preceded by asking for a community survey. I can edit it to say "I think you'll get [...]" but already asking for a community survey implies I'm asking for clarity on my own biased thoughts.

[zBanHammer]

Hey there. Any update to this? I'm just now getting my hands dirty with the API and this is a stat my clan is fervently requesting for me to pull.

[vthornheart-bng]

Unfortunately my last update still reflects the current situation. Given the priorities of the teams that would have to work on it, I don't think that we're ever going to see per-encounter stats come down from the API: though it would be very cool! Sorry about that, I know it's a bummer. Let your clan know that this is a problem of a lack of data on Bungie's side rather than your own, and it doesn't look like we'll ever actually be able to provide it.

[justinYarrington]

Just curious, how are total damage numbers currently displayed for raid wipes or at the end of survival matches? Using the API, there is no difference between retrieving the information for a raid or a crucible/survival match, i.e. https://stats.bungie.net/Platform/Destiny2/Stats/PostGameCarnageReport/{raid_or_survival_id}

When a survival match is finished, players are presented with their total damage dealt during the game. However, this information is hidden and not retrievable via the API. This leads me to believe that maybe this information is calculated client-side? That would be inefficient for all members to have to do that. Or, I'm not really sure how things work on the backend, maybe it's also possible that the session of the raid/survival match has the numbers handy, but once the session is left/abandoned the information is gone and not stored anywhere.

Obviously the information lives somewhere, and even if it can't be accessible via the APIs it would still be nice to see post raid clear, similar to Survival and raid wipes.

[vthornheart-bng]

Good question! That information isn't stored permanently and doesn't exist by the time the stats processor retrieves this information, which is why we can't get at it. There have been discussions over the years of potentially trying to acquire that info, but there would be work that'd need to be done in a few different systems to make that happen, along with concerns about further storage needs (in a system that already stores a large amount of data).

[TomoFromEarth]

Hi, any changes on this topic?

🤓🤙🏼