RFC: Rebase BL basic theme(s) on Arc

[ghost]

This concerns #13.

During the past year, Arc has kinda established itself as GTK theme with good development support and aesthetic merit (sleek, clean, etc): https://github.com/horst3180/arc-theme.

I suggest to create the next generation of BL themes as an overlay over Arc, as the effort the rewrite a theme from scratch that covers all edge cases and little hacks necessary to look good on shitty GTK3 applications such as Firefox or LibreOffice is gonna be pretty big.

We could have a master branch tracking Arc upstream, and have a separate branch with our modifications which we then would continually rebase on master when upstream pushes updates.

[ghost]

Specifically, I'd replace the blue accent color of Arc – with perhaps the exception of focused elements – with a nice warm grey, for example #282722.

[johnraff]

No openbox theme provided, so that would have to be written from scratch.

Anyway, this needs input from @hhhorb and @capn-damo in particular.

[ghost]

^ The OB theme is overseeable in its complexity so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[johnraff]

The OB theme is overseeable in its complexity so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Cool.

But we need input from the Artwork Team here. It's not my zone at all.

[ghost]

@hhhorb Now that you're back, any input?

[johnraff]

There is an Arc-openbox theme: https://github.com/dglava/arc-openbox

[hhhorb]

Sorry for the loooooooong delay.

GTK-3 3.22, which is used in stretch, has moved to the SASS scripting language to compile the CSS. I just discovered this yesterday and am still wrapping my head around it.

If we decide to release Helium with a complete visual refresh for the default theme, then I like the idea of using Arc as a template, but I think we should let the community have some input. If we keep the default theme "CrunchBang-y" in look, then I recommend using the Arch-Bunsen themes as a base.

I'd like to see some form of both included in BL, a new look and a retro one, no matter which is the default.

[johnraff]

I'd like to see some form of both included in BL, a new look and a retro one, no matter which is the default.

I like this idea too.

[despin]

I really liked the idea, but I need that BL theme updated, it's a visual delight XD

[hhhorb]

For now, use the ARCHLabs themes... https://github.com/ARCHLabs/Themes

[hhhorb]

I have a working theme posted on the forums based on Greybird and the stretch artwork that I'm calling SoftWaves... https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?pid=46693#p46693

I need a refresher course on GitHub, as I've been away for awhile, but I'll upload it ASAP. Tackling Arc can come after that.

re: Openbox, theming it is fairly trivial, thank goodness.

[hhhorb]

Closing Issue #13 so all discussion is in one place.

[hhhorb]

re: Creating a dark theme that is usable (as mentioned here... https://github.com/BunsenLabs/bunsen-themes/issues/13#issuecomment-284866964) , the way I see my workflow going...

1. Alter Greybird so it's consistent with what we had in #! (e.g. non-rounded scrollbars) and have in Hydrogen (e.g. matching menus, scrollbars and, for the most part, buttons between gtk2/3, fairly easy ability to change the color scheme in both gtk2/3).
2. Alter the color scheme to mimic the existing themes (I'm not concerned about matching color values exactly).
3. Create a dark-theme variety from that.
4. Do the same with another theme (i.e. Arc).

1 is almost done, I think. The one big item left is to see if there is a way to disable gtk3's scrollbar:hover behavior, which I hate (any dissenters on that opinion?)

2 is trivial if I've done 1 right.

3 should also be trivial... switch gtk3 to dark via gsettings, which I need to test right now, and then create a matching gtk2 theme. The last step should also be trivial.

4 is a whole new can of worms, but hopefully will be easier as I get the hang of it.

Honestly, I'm just glad it wasn't too much trouble getting SASS installed and running on Debian and understanding how they've separated the theme elements out between the *.scss files. :D

[hhhorb]

@2ion, in Issue #13 you mentioned the Vertex themes, have they been updated for current-ish GNOME somewhere?

[hhhorb]

... switch gtk3 to dark via gsettings, which I need to test right now, and then create a matching gtk2 theme.

Thank goodness, it is trivial, and you don't need to touch gsettings. In ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini add the line gtk-application-prefer-dark-theme=1 and restart your gtk3 application.

This works in SoftWaves, though it uses the Greybird color scheme/scrollbars/etc... as I haven't updated the changes there yet. It looks stunning, though.

[hhhorb]

The one big item left is to see if there is a way to disable gtk3's scrollbar:hover behavior, which I hate (any dissenters on that opinion?)

Er, I'm late to the party again as the solution is in the Arch Wiki, and it's also trivial. The easiest solution for me is to create ~/.xsessionrc with the content 'export GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0'

I'll leave it to rest of The Team as to if and how this should be implemented in BL.

[hhhorb]

@andrew160, thanks for mentioning the update to Blackbird, that is a gorgeous theme. Sorry it took me a year to say something!

[johnraff]

gtk3's scrollbar:hover behavior

what is that behaviour?

[hhhorb]

In gtk3 applications, the scrollbar appearance changes when your mouse cursor hovers over it. It is invisible when the cursor is outside of the window, appears as a narrow bar when the cursor enters the window, and widens when the cursor is over the scrollbar. Here's an example... https://youtu.be/NAGhJhz9crA

-edit- Viewing that video, you can see that it actually depends on which frame of the window the cursor is in, as in the case of Nautilus and its sidebar.

[hhhorb]

A related issue, and again I turn to the Arch Wiki, is the overlay scroll indicators... https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GTK%2B#Remove_overlay_scroll_indicators

My preference is for us to disable overlay scrollbar behavior, the overlay via ~/.config/.xsessionrc and the indicator via ~/.config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css in order to match gtk2's behavior. Users can enable the feature if they wish.

[hhhorb]

@2ion, can we change the title of this issue to something more generic, like "Helium GTK Themes"?

[hhhorb]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaw, HELL YEAH!!!

[hhhorb]

^I forgot to mention, I achieved this without using a line in settings.ini by ignoring the "dark" files and customizing the normal files. I'll make sure to add a note in the README informing the user not to mess with gsettings or gnome-tweak-tool.

[johnraff]

It is invisible when the cursor is outside of the window, appears as a narrow bar when the cursor enters the window, and widens when the cursor is over the scrollbar. Here's an example... https://youtu.be/NAGhJhz9crA

This is in gtk3 as in Debian Stretch, right? I don't see anything like that with eg Synaptic in Jessie. Anyway, agreed it's irritating - by all means let's have the scrollbars permanently visible. It's not as if we're making a UI for tiny tablet devices where every pixel is needed. Is it?

[johnraff]

@2ion, can we change the title of this issue to something more generic, like "Helium GTK Themes"?

I'm not @2ion but IMO issues are supposed to be single issues - raised, discussed and fixed. Might I suggest opening such a general discussion topic on the BunsenLabs forums?

[hhhorb]

This is in gtk3 as in Debian Stretch, right?

Yes.

re: the issue title, I opened a thread yesterday to track stretch theme dev... https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=3459

But, yes, I'm asking how everyone wants this organized. I saw Issue #13 and this as essentially the same issue, "How will we fix our broken themes in stretch?"

For this issue, I'm now saying that I've looked at the changes in gtk3, have a grip on how sass/scss works, have working themes and can colorize them with little effort. Doing the same with Arc will take some time, I don't have the head-start of having already organized the gtk2 theme so it's easy to change colour schemes.

re: Issue #13, I can reopen it and then close it when I've uploaded themes to a theme Helium branch, which I plan to do this weekend.

Please advise.

[hhhorb]

hhhorb to self Great work, that dark theme especially is GORGEOUS! Team BL Meh... too Windozey :p :)

[hhhorb]

Well, Arc is a PITA too. Even in it's GTK2 themes, it uses image files for the menu backgrounds, button backgrounds, scrollbar and trough appearance, entry box backgrounds, etc... So I can change the (IMO) eye-bleed base-white and selected-blue colors easily enough, but I have to recolor something like 90 image files to avoid all sorts of white borders and color mismatches.

I'll keep looking at this, though, I haven't quit yet.

BTW, my latest commit flattens out the gradients in Greybirds toolbars. I haven't tried to eliminate all gradients (buttons and progress-bars come to mind), but maybe this will be a good compromise between 'modern' and, dare I say it, 'bland'.

[ghost]

Personally, I also prefer SVG/CSS over bitmap assets: easy to express and maintain. It's the feature! I wasn't aware that Arc was relying on old-style pixmaps so much.

[hhhorb]

@2ion , @johnraff , everyone, I only have a minute but I'm excited about this and wanted you to see...

The theme is based on Chromium-OS available from NoobsLabs' PPA, and it seems very similar to Arc in appearance, only a little more usable IMO. No GTK image assets, no GTK3 SASS needed. I haven't had time to check but there are 2 GTK3 folders, I think that's so you can make it backwards compatible with pre-3.20.

I made the default background, base and some other elements darker than pure white, and used the selected_bg color that 2ion posted in the OP, but with a value of 45 IIRC (the hex he posted was veeeery dark).

I'll upload ASAP, hopefully this afternoon. First draft of GTK2/3 only so far, but Openbox/notification themes are easy. Let me know what you think!

[hhhorb]

^ That selected color looked fine on my blue-ish laptop screen, but poo colored on my phone. I'll use a neutral gray when I upload it.

[ghost]

^ Hm, verrry flat. I don't like the Windows10ish appearance of the buttons; and the finish of the device view in Thunar seems rather crude (margin of location breadcrumbs there is also a bit thin).

It looks to me like an inconsistently modified version/port of Clearlooks for gtk3. Personally I think it's definitely usable, but it has ATM less elegance than what we should be gunning for.

[johnraff]

Nice and clean, but to be honest I don't mind having some gradients here and there. I don't share the current enthusiasm for flat themes as much as some of our Young Turks...

...but that's just one opinion - pay more attention to our graphics experts. I try to keep out of graphics decisions on the whole, except to say when I hate or love something.

[hhhorb]

^ Well said, and I'm in agreement, actually. The themes in my dev repo are more usable than this or Arc, as far as button appearance and behavior. But I'm trying come up with an alternative theme so users have a variety of choices.

BTW, the above theme has a GPL as far as I can tell. Here is the original source... http://b00merang.weebly.com/ https://github.com/B00merang-Project/Chrome-OS

[hhhorb]

@2ion, it's based on Win 10! (see the b00merang link above).

it has ATM less elegance than what we should be gunning for.

Fair enough. The search continues...

[hhhorb]

I've been removing gradients and border-highlights from Greybird, my result so far is called Bunsen-He-flatish... https://github.com/hhhorb/bunsen-themes-dev

The GTK2 theme is pretty flat. It also has a fix that eliminates the top and bottom highlight from GTK2 toolbars.

The GTK3 may never match, and I've only made some headway into removing gradients. It looks OK for a start, though, from my limited testing.

I haven't even attempted to theme Firefox, nor have I yet looked at how it renders the Arc themes (sorry!)

Please check it out and comment!

[ghost]

Love the Conky typography in Soft Waves!

[ghost]

Blackish is very dark.

[hhhorb]

re: typography, I assume you mean in the screenshot? That font is Infini, I've used it as my system font for months now... http://cnap.graphismeenfrance.fr/infini/en/

re: Blackish, I haven't had an Internet connection at night for months now. Any serious testing on my end will have to wait for now.

Let me know how usable you find Bunsen-He-flatish,and what issues you find.