CalConnect / cc-datetime-explicit

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Representation of negative decade/century (04-fundamental-principles.adoc#decade) #4

Closed calconnect-ci closed 4 years ago

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ribose-jeffreylau on Sep 6, 2018, 08:07

Created by: atlauren

Decade

The decade is represented as the following time scale component:

[i]["U"] '196U' (the 1960s)

Examples should include indications to anticipated, albeit noncommon, representations.

'0U' (years 00-09 CE)

(How would one represent "the fifty years preceding 400BCE"?)

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ronaldtse on Sep 6, 2018, 09:05

Thanks for bringing this up. Notice that this representation does not allow negative integers, and it is an intentional omission in ISO 8601-2 -- I wrote it but it was removed afterwards. This also applies to the "Century" time scale component; negative century is not allowed.

The reason for removal is the confusion it may cause in the AD/BC calendar year scale. 8601 adopts the astronomical year scale that allows a year 0. There is no "0" year in AD/BC, it's 1 AD followed by 1 BC. Therefore, in 8601, year "0" means "1 BC".

I am however inclined to allow negative values for these, but it is not straightforward.

Original text for negative decade:

4.4.6 Decade and decade duration

The decade is represented as follows extending 4.3.3: Explicit: decE(m) = [!][“-”][decE]

EXAMPLE: ‘-10U’ in date represents the time interval of Gregorian years -100 through -91.

When a negative decade represents a date, the negative value is to represent the number of decades prior to the Gregorian year 0, where the first decade before the Gregorian year 0, the Gregorian years -1 through -10, is represented by the integer value ‘-1’.

Here's the problem with expressing "the fifty years preceding 400BCE":

The only way to express this using this document (this expression cannot be expressed in normal 8601) is:

Let's discuss.

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ronaldtse on Sep 7, 2018, 01:47

Minor change to report: "J" is now decade.

See 6d9097cd067922ab0ba090adf25274bf58be818c

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ronaldtse on Sep 7, 2018, 09:17

Do you mean the representation of negative values with [C] and [Y]? Century suffers from the exact same problem as Decade. If we want to represent blocks of BC, we need to have a syntax that offsets the year 0.

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ribose-jeffreylau on Sep 7, 2018, 08:48

Created by: atlauren

I certainly appreciate the difficulty of representing negative time values. Normative reference to historical periods is certainly a problem in academia, whether those periods are relatively recent (sociological, political), medium (biological) or long term (geological, astronomical).

Including the possibility for a limited set of values seems helpful (only [C] and [Y], perhaps?), albeit imperfect.

I don't think negative values are required, but if it's intentionally omitted should there be a statement to that effect?

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ribose-jeffreylau on Sep 7, 2018, 11:13

Created by: atlauren

Aich. Yeah, there's no getting around that is there? Maybe your example "-449Y/-400Y" really is the only practical away to express this.

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ronaldtse on Sep 7, 2018, 11:22

The easy way is to provide an addition symbol for “Shift”.

For example, “-45J1YQ” where the coefficient of “Q” indicates shift of one year to the decade.

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ronaldtse on Sep 9, 2018, 02:05

Proposal for negative decade and century here.

  1. Propose adding a time scale component "V" ("v" for "variance") that is for shifting time intervals or dates. The representation is [duration]["V"], it applies to the preceding expression.

This allows -45J1YV to represent "the fifty years preceding 400BCE".

  1. Propose adding a symbol called "B" (for "BC", obviously) that is a shorthand for "1YV" (a positive 1-year shift). This allows us to specify -45JB for "450BCE to 400BCE" (-449/-400), and -8CB for "8th Century BC". This is merely a convenience feature.

@atlauren what do you think?

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ribose-jeffreylau on Sep 9, 2018, 06:33

Created by: atlauren

@ronaldtse I dig it. Ship it.

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ronaldtse on Sep 9, 2018, 15:14

Thanks @atlauren ! 👍

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ronaldtse on Sep 11, 2018, 02:46

So the "V" syntax was rejected from 8601-2, but I'm still trying with the "B".

calconnect-ci commented 4 years ago

In GitLab by @ronaldtse on Sep 11, 2018, 05:49

Submitted the "B", but let's see what happens.