BETA Balance Issues Report Thread - Please report balance issues here!

[CessnaSkyhawk]

Balance Issues I currently am aware of

• [x] Updating the localization files
• [x] Clementine is a tier or two too early
• [x] The Bluedog_DB only LF sounding rockets node is useless cuz. Move some vanguard and redstone parts to tier 1
• [x] Move Klaws to Robotics
• [x] Convert EmergencySwitch fix to a full patch for parts w/ no default fuel switch
• [x] Consider adding a true telescope experiment to dif them from cameras - similar to cameras, but only works in space, and biomes are in high rather than low orbit.
• [x] Add Fuel Patch for Wet Workshops
• [x] Figure out what's up with RL-10 upgrades
• [x] Add Cargo Support for BDB, Special Delivery
• [x] Cargo Support for Tundra Exploration - easiest way is probs by renaming their switches
• [x] - [x] Move CRE Kerosene/HTP engines to hypergolics branch
• [x] BDB Apollo/Saturn parts need hypergol support
• [x] https://github.com/CessnaSkyhawk/SkyhawkScienceSystem/issues/1#issuecomment-987501101
• [x] Figure out what to do about the icons on the part upgrades...
• [x] https://github.com/CessnaSkyhawk/SkyhawkScienceSystem/issues/2#issuecomment-932032609 - figure out a way to apply waterfall configs to both SSMEs
• [x] Make Orion Branch only appear when needed
• [x] Take another look at if the Gridded Thrusters --> Ion Drives nodes are really needed - maybe move them into plasma branch and move icons back so there's a cleaner progression. If so, then move everything down so the whole bend in the top group is no longer there, and then make reuse get the new open spot.
• [x] Consider moving some Near Future Solar parts to tier 10, alongside all Starship parts
• [x] Consider moving all Near Future Construction trusses up one tier
• [x] Consider mergeing automation w/ machine learning
• [x] Finish localization of various upgrades
• [x] SAS upgrades
• [x] Reaction Wheel weakening patch to make rcs relevant
• [x] Patch to fix bluedog contracts
• [x] Finish up support for last few 0.9.0 mods
• [x] Make a call on if you're gonna bother with engine ignitor or hold off till after 1.0 - post 1.0
• [x] #30

[pixe1reality]

Things I've noticed with the tech tree so far, with the latest git build (as of this post going out), and the integrated*/supported* mods installed (and other mods that do not add parts/tech tree content, and are thus irrelevant to this post):

• Automation, Orbital Arcologies, and High Performance SSTOs lack parts, despite preceding and succeeding nodes having parts.
• Quantum Communication, Faster than Light Travel, Zero Point Energy, Orbital Shipyards, Megastructures, Ansibles, and Microwave Transmission/Solar Sails don't seem to have anything in them. (Not sure why they're there, they seem to be placeholder nodes for "sci fi tech"?)
• The Near Future Kerolox, and Far Future Solids/Cryo/Hypergol/Kerolox Engines nodes have nothing in them, and the only thing in the Conventional Mastery combined node is a couple of CryoTech tanks. Same with Near Future Solar Panels, despite the fact there's an entire mod about such a thing.
• A completely barren "orion" branch of the tech tree from the Nuclear path, lacking parts and localisation. Is this for Orion drive mod support?
• the Nuclear Salt Water Rocket engine, despite being a fission based means of propulsion, is in the Fusion part of the Nuclear tech tree branch. (This might be for balance reasons owing to how unbelievably OP the engine is, if so ignore this)
• Ion Drives node has no ion drive engines whatsoever, just a single tank from NFP. This node seems to be rather redundant if intended.
• Science nodes seem to flip flop between scientific/mathematic terms and numerical increments, probably due to it being a placeholder.
• Control 12 completely lacks localisation.
• Missing History's Gas Core engine (being based on the "Nuclear Lightbulb" concept" is in Mature Nuclear Propulsion, rather than in Gas Core NTRs.
• Scansat parts, a mod that's a major recommendation for Rational Resources, is only visible in the Debug node. the Debug node being present is strange, but probably visible for debugging reasons.
• Feels strange having the BFS/Starship parts from Tundra Exploration be in Modern Rocketry rather than in Near Future Rocketry tech level, considering the sheer crew capacity the crew vehicles offer.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

@T10a Thanks for all the notes - I think you've caught a few pretty big mixups that I should fix ASAP. I'm currently traveling, but I'm hoping to find some downtime this weekend to finally start addressing everything for the next beta release.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

Automation, Orbital Arcologies, and High Performance SSTOs lack parts, despite preceding and succeeding nodes having parts. Quantum Communication, Faster than Light Travel, Zero Point Energy, Orbital Shipyards, Megastructures, Ansibles, and Microwave Transmission/Solar Sails don't seem to have anything in them. (Not sure why they're there, they seem to be placeholder nodes for "sci fi tech"?)

Orbital Arcologies and High-Performance SSTOs both were just due to typos. They each have at least one or two parts. The rest are mostly just leftovers of the fact that I assembled the tree first and then fit the various part mods into it, so there were a few dryer spots. Some will get filled up as I add in one or two remaining stragglers either before or after 1.0 (specifically Solar Sails, FTL Travel, and Microwave Power Transmission, and the rest will either have to be deleted, or more likely, I will just shift some parts around in a way that makes sense.).

The Near Future Kerolox, and Far Future Solids/Cryo/Hypergol/Kerolox Engines nodes have nothing in them, and the only thing in the Conventional Mastery combined node is a couple of CryoTech tanks. Same with Near Future Solar Panels, despite the fact there's an entire mod about such a thing. For all of those, they are all results of the same issue as with some of those other nodes from the last point. As for NFSP, that's more just a coincidence in how the names line up - I mainly balanced solar panels based on how much power they produce. I might still look at moving a few up though, just to keep all the nodes full.

A completely barren "orion" branch of the tech tree from the Nuclear path, lacking parts and localisation. Is this for Orion drive mod support? Yeah, that still requires a bit of touching up (and a initializer so it only appears when needed), but it's for the Stockish Project Orion mod

the Nuclear Salt Water Rocket engine, despite being a fission based means of propulsion, is in the Fusion part of the Nuclear tech tree branch. (This might be for balance reasons owing to how unbelievably OP the engine is, if so ignore this) Yeah, you hit it spot on - it's pretty powerful so it'd kinda outshine all the other ntrs if it was in the fission section. While I do try and keep the localization somewhat relevant to the parts being unlocked, there's a few cases where it doesn't line up perfectly as I consider balance to be the bigger priority.

Ion Drives node has no ion drive engines whatsoever, just a single tank from NFP. This node seems to be rather redundant if intended. I'll have to take another look at that - the whole branch in itself is a tad redundant, so I might honestly merge it back into the branch it comes from.

Science nodes seem to flip flop between scientific/mathematic terms and numerical increments, probably due to it being a placeholder. Control 12 completely lacks localisation. Localization is still pretty sloppy - It's an ongoing process, so it should be patched up sometime soon.

Missing History's Gas Core engine (being based on the "Nuclear Lightbulb" concept" is in Mature Nuclear Propulsion, rather than in Gas Core NTRs. This is another one of those cases where it doesn't make sense localization-wise in exchange for balance.

Scansat parts, a mod that's a major recommendation for Rational Resources, is only visible in the Debug node. the Debug node being present is strange, but probably visible for debugging reasons. ScanSat support is coming sometime soon. It's on my list of mods to finish up before release. As for the debug node, I just keep forgetting to delete it before making new release zips

Feels strange having the BFS/Starship parts from Tundra Exploration be in Modern Rocketry rather than in Near Future Rocketry tech level, considering the sheer crew capacity the crew vehicles offer. The original idea was that you get the parts to do test-flight "hops" like irl first, and then the stuff to actually make a useful orbital one (crew and cargo cabins, and the super-heavy booster) the tier after, because it seemed like a lot of people would like that, but looking back at it now, I'm leaning towards just shifting everything into the near future tier.

[pixe1reality]

Gotcha, and thanks for the responses! Another thing I just found with those mods (forgot to install Planetside Exploration Technologies before :sweat_smile: ) is the following:

• Feels weird having small structural parts from Planetside Exploration Technologies be in Orbital Arcologies, despite more or less being small, simple fixtures and a boom.
• Is it intended that the smaller base parts from that mod be after the larger base parts from KPBS? Unless they're more efficient or powerful, it seems weird having large base parts from a mod be before smaller base parts imo.
• A thought for Modular Launch Pads, would it be sensible to start with small sounding rocket/LV pads and increasing technologies unlock larger and larger pads and certain vehicle hold-downs and arms? It'd match the current progression with the FASA launch clamps included with BDB, and help make the parts a bit more meaningful, even if they're already just screenshot candy and used only at the start of a mission.

[Moe-Kitsune]

Small thing I've found, the early Bion science experiment for the Orbiting Frog Otolith doesn't get it's historically accurate satellite bus (the MIP probe core) until 2 tiers later. Doesn't impact anything really, and its probably for balance reasons.

[Morphisor244]

I would like to request the parts designated 'Mariner 2' to be moved to the front a bit, to be on the same nodes as the Ranger Block 1 parts. They're in node 5 whereas the Ranger parts are in node 3 and occasionally 4. The earliest Mariner craft was in fact just a modified Ranger Block 1 craft, with Ranger Block 2 already being more technologically advanced (although not as reliable...).

I noticed it's the same way in the patch you wrote for Tetrix.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

@T10a @Moe-Kitsune @Morphisor244, for all three of y'all, I'm going to be loading up an instance of SSS with every single mod installed in order to get a better look at how everything falls into place, and will look into ur suggestions from there.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

Checklist Complete - looks like we are good to go here! 💯